#Brexit vote coming soon.

captaincarnage
Major
Posts: 1915
Joined: Sat 29 Mar 2014 23:50
Contact:

Re: #Brexit vote coming soon.

Postby captaincarnage » Sat 25 Jun 2016 19:50

delfo wrote:I used educated as a substitute for informed because I drew a blank on coming up with informed on the first go. English is not my native language synonyms sometimes take a while.

Being in my 30s and all that. But I am glad you classed it up and kept going after that, asking for a clarification is for chums probably.


So you wanted to call me uninformed and illeducated or just one of those things on the basis of a barely comprehensible article in a foreign publication i have never heard. It would have been easier to understand if it was written in French, which i have a rusty but passable comprehension of.

Either way that's pretty rude even in the context of this shit post riddled thread, so what exactly were you trying to achieve by posting that?
I hope your buratino's die screaming.

delfo
Major-General
Posts: 3735
Joined: Wed 6 Aug 2014 19:57
Contact:

Re: #Brexit vote coming soon.

Postby delfo » Sat 25 Jun 2016 19:52

captaincarnage wrote:
delfo wrote:I used educated as a substitute for informed because I drew a blank on coming up with informed on the first go. English is not my native language synonyms sometimes take a while.

Being in my 30s and all that. But I am glad you classed it up and kept going after that, asking for a clarification is for chums probably.


So you wanted to call me uninformed and illeducated or just one of those things on the basis of a barely comprehensible article in a foreign publication i have never heard.

Either way that's pretty rude even in the context of this shit post riddled thread, so what exactly were you trying to achieve by posting that?


Just (Un)informed because you made your mind without taking time to investigate past the headline and you shared your opinion immediately. Textbook definition of uniformed or impulsive decision making.

Social commentary is not about grand achievements, it merely illuminates. You with this style achieve even less.

captaincarnage
Major
Posts: 1915
Joined: Sat 29 Mar 2014 23:50
Contact:

Re: #Brexit vote coming soon.

Postby captaincarnage » Sat 25 Jun 2016 20:25

delfo wrote:
Uninformed because you made your mind without taking time to investigate past the headline and you shared your opinion immediately. Textbook definition of uniformed or impulse decision making.


I wasn't aware there was much in the way of informed debate in this thread in the first place given the high standard of shit posting, trolling here. Need i remind you that It was you who felt the need to turn this into something personal.

Your little dig was precisely what the remain campaign did, they sold their arguments cheaply and failed to justify the pro's surrounding the EU and instead resorted to name calling and lies, they lost the referendum and now they're salty, much like you. My only regret was lowering myself to your level and responding to you in kind.
I hope your buratino's die screaming.

delfo
Major-General
Posts: 3735
Joined: Wed 6 Aug 2014 19:57
Contact:

Re: #Brexit vote coming soon.

Postby delfo » Sat 25 Jun 2016 20:28

captaincarnage wrote:
delfo wrote:
Uninformed because you made your mind without taking time to investigate past the headline and you shared your opinion immediately. Textbook definition of uniformed or impulse decision making.


I wasn't aware there was much in the way of informed debate in this thread in the first place given the high standard of shit posting, trolling here. Need i remind you that It was you who felt the need to turn this into something personal.

Your little dig was precisely what the remain campaign did, they sold their arguments cheaply and failed to justify the pro's surrounding the EU and instead resorted to name calling and lies, they lost the referendum and now they're salty, much like you. My only regret was lowering myself to your level and responding to you in kind.


Stoping that sort of responding doesn't seem to be on the list...

I find it valuable when faced with a monumentous decision which is coloured in demagoguery to look past it and evaluate it so that in the future I don't have to resort to the excuse "I didn't know ". It's a poor legal defense.

As to you being personally attacked, you made a fool of yourself by taking the article at face value and didn't let it go and searched for poor excuses and lashing out at the people pointing it out rather than accepting it. Which sadly for you is a lot worse than any ad hominem attack that I would be tempted to deliver. If you are willing to accept an article on a political entity's decision regarding Brexit based on the words in the title it is in fact very much relevant to the process you used to evaluate Brexit evidence.

PS When you're boxing yourself remember to wear the full set of protective garments. Your future self will appreciate it.

PPS Yes I have also made a fool of myself on this forum and in this very thread.
Last edited by delfo on Sat 25 Jun 2016 20:42, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Vulcan 607
Major-General
Posts: 3911
Joined: Mon 31 Mar 2014 20:40
Location: Malton
Contact:

Re: #Brexit vote coming soon.

Postby Vulcan 607 » Sat 25 Jun 2016 20:35

So who wants to bet on this thread been locked soon?


What I find strange is the amount of hate no good luck to you its all hate frankly if that's the attitude of the EU we were right to vote leave

delfo
Major-General
Posts: 3735
Joined: Wed 6 Aug 2014 19:57
Contact:

Re: #Brexit vote coming soon.

Postby delfo » Sat 25 Jun 2016 20:40

Vulcan 607 wrote:What I find strange is the amount of hate no good luck to you its all hate frankly if that's the attitude of the EU we were right to vote leave


The UK over the years received the most concessions. Things other countries couldn't bargain for. And to leave because it wasn't satisfied with the new round of concessions it was offered in February was too much.

On the other hand Merkel said it's OK to wait for Britain to trigger Article 50. I am guessing however if Britain doesn't she would ask for a lot more than 19 billion pounds.

DrRansom
Lieutenant Colonel
Posts: 2032
Joined: Sat 14 Jan 2012 18:22
Contact:

Re: #Brexit vote coming soon.

Postby DrRansom » Sat 25 Jun 2016 20:45

delfo wrote:When Germany starts giving loans to Greece directly, I will let you know when that happens. Until then ask the ECB, the IMF, the EC and the ESM.


Man, you don't really want to accept how the Eurozone runs, right?

Ok, when does the ECM, the EC, and the ESM, which are funded by contributions by Germany and France, agree to debt relief for Greece? The IMF is encouraging debt relief for Greece, but Germany has resisted that.

Here is a relevant story:
http://www.wsj.com/articles/imf-wants-eurozone-debt-relief-for-greece-until-2040-1463468493

I'd like to quote this paragraph first:
German leaders are confident that the IMF will soften its stand, people familiar with the negotiations say. The Washington-based fund is ultimately controlled by its majority shareholders, European Union governments and the U.S., who want a deal in the coming weeks that keeps the IMF on board and Greece afloat. But Berlin officials also know they will have to offer the IMF major concessions, engaging in a long-delayed debate about Greece’s debt burden that Germany previously claimed wasn’t needed.


Where are the EU leaders in this negotiation? Where is the ECM, or the ECB, or the EC? Nowhere, because the negotiations over Greek debt is made between individual member states of the EU, creditor states, and the IMF. You two are either being willfully misleading about the state of power within the EU OR you're more ignorant about European Union dynamics than a stupid American.

Further down in the same article
Officials in Berlin thus want to make only limited adjustments to Greece’s loan terms now, and postpone the major changes, which would need a Bundestag vote, until 2018—after Germany’s national elections in 2017.

Germany’s aim in the talks is to arrive at a formula that assures the IMF that Greece’s debt will be tackled “if necessary,” based on Greece’s fiscal and economic situation in 2018, while letting Germany delay final decisions until then.

The IMF’s suggestion that Europe lock in low interest rates for Greece for decades to come is hard for the eurozone to digest. The bloc’s bailout vehicles, such as the European Stability Mechanism, would then need subsidies from national budgets to cover a part of their own funding costs. IMF staff “like solutions that imply budgetary transfers,” said a European official.


Where is the European Union solidarity there? The Germans are hoping to delay Greek debt relief until after German elections in 2017. This is hardly the behavior of countries driven by strong internal solidarity. Rather, the solidarity is only after domestic political concerns are accommodated. (Frencho, where is your zero-sum game now?)

Finally, who did President Obama call after the Brexit vote? Prime Minister Cameron and Chancellor Merkel. Not the French, not the head of the EC, the head of the German government. The US President understands the power dynamic in the EU and contacts the most important decision maker there first.

PS. Germany will want a trade agreement between the EU and the UK. German exports are more important than ensuring EU solidarity and discouraging leavers.

User avatar
Sarvik
Second-Lieutenant
Posts: 779
Joined: Fri 9 Mar 2012 15:03
Contact:

Re: #Brexit vote coming soon.

Postby Sarvik » Sat 25 Jun 2016 20:47

I am slightly worried what kind of retarded reforms eurobureaucrats will come up with, now that those pesky torpedoing Brits are out.

delfo
Major-General
Posts: 3735
Joined: Wed 6 Aug 2014 19:57
Contact:

Re: #Brexit vote coming soon.

Postby delfo » Sat 25 Jun 2016 20:52

DrRansom wrote:Points raised




The Eurozone works unanimously usually. Hence I corrected you.

That would lead to the same being relevant to Germany or Slovakia or England being capable to delay previous bailout proposals or require them to include extra guarantees. That more or less should answer all your points.

http://www.esm.europa.eu/about/governan ... /index.htm

Check the contribution. Spain and Italy can brow beat it if it was about contributions.

Sure Germany has considerable influence ( sort of ) in the EUBut what you're saying isn't there. Merkel has a coalition government, she doesn't agree with her foreign minister on foreign policy regarding Russia...

On the exports thing:

https://www.destatis.de/EN/FactsFigures ... cationFile

9% is it ?
Last edited by delfo on Sat 25 Jun 2016 20:59, edited 1 time in total.

DrRansom
Lieutenant Colonel
Posts: 2032
Joined: Sat 14 Jan 2012 18:22
Contact:

Re: #Brexit vote coming soon.

Postby DrRansom » Sat 25 Jun 2016 20:59

delfo wrote:The Eurozone works unanimously usually. Hence I corrected you.

That would lead to the same being relevant to Germany or Slovakia or England being capable to delay previous bailout proposals or require them to include extra guarantees. That more or less should answer all your points.

On the exports thing:

https://www.destatis.de/EN/FactsFigures ... cationFile

9% is it ?


I think you misunderstand my point. My point is that European Solidarity isn't. The EU is still not a unified entity working for the best interests of everyone. National interests are still more important than European interests.

If the EU was a real thing, which people really believed in, then Germany would consider Greek debt relief as the same as social spending in East Germany, or a infrastructure project in Hamburg. But the Germans don't. Until we see real fiscal transfers from wealthy EU states to poor EU states, the European Union has no right to call itself a Union. Inter-state solidarity has not yet been really tested. Greek debt relief is the test of whether the EU is really unified. So far, the answer is decisively no.

What does this mean for Brexit? Britain was right to leave the EU. The EU doesn't care for it's members, the EU is a bunch of states watching out for themselves.

Return to “Off-Topic”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 18 guests