First of all, thank you for a more civil and considered response. i had originally intended to ignore any response from you but i have changed my mind, i hope you will take my response in the spirit with which it is intended, ie an honest debate without recourse to some of the more childish antics that politicians and administrators of all persuasions tend to revert to
It is not like you guys paid disproportionately much. Ofc people will moan, but the holes will be stuffed, one way or another. No one likes to recalculate his already finished fiscal plans.
No indeed, leverage works both ways, that said paying too high a price for something which other countries receive for free is only going to end one way and that is neither side will come to an agreement. The situation for the EU is about as precarious as it has ever been, that said no one here feels vindictive enough, yet to walk away without having a sensible and honest discussion about what may be owed and what any future relationship will look like. You however should be under no illusions that we will not pay a blank checque to retain a good trading relationship with Europe. If that is what is going to be so generously on offer then we should all be asking ourselves what on earth we are doing in entrusting the people whose responsibility it is to spend all this money with another penny.
Norway pays for their deals with the EU and accepts the requirements that come with them. Being part of the EU market means freedom of movement, something you guys dont like, because those evil mexican polish immigrants are stealing yer jobs.
About the 4th Reich thing, you kinda missunderstood me; it is nonsense, just like all the stuff Brexiteers think about the EU. Non democratic, damaging the British economy, evil bureaucrats, ............... Someone who shoots purposely into his own foot, eh, what he believes to know about the intentions behind the indiscretion from last week is kinda meaningless.
You actually haven't quite read and understood the message from my last response to you, which is perfectly understandable given that clowns like Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage tried to sell the idea that we could have all of our cake and eat it with regards to the single market. Thankfully one is probably going to get relegated back the back benches and the other one has only ever been a an MEP.
Norway's involvement with the EU is that it is the equivalent of a member without a voice, it goes without saying that this is an even worse proposition for the UK than the current arrangements. The EU is in or has completed negotiations with numerous other nations who will not be part of the EEA like Norway, this is what the UK is aiming for, this in crude terms means that tariffs are reduced to zero for both sides but totally friction less trade is no longer a given due to not being part of the customs union.
If you look at the demographics of the people who voted leave, the average age is 56 which is the point at which most normal people are contemplating retirement rather than starting out in the world, it also puts very firmly in living memory a life and economy which predates the EU/EEC with Britain as a member and maybe just maybe makes people hypersensitive about the precious nature of the 'brand' of democracy which we hold dear that their fathers and grandfathers fought and died to preserve. The idea that they're 'takin' our jobs is just a meme at this point and bears no resemblance to what a socially acceptable brand of Euroscepticism actually derives itself from. Its definitely hard to grasp but it is something that is deeply ingrained in this countries DNA. A little walk through history will demonstrate that we as a country have not always followed accepted wisdom of the time and yet still exists pretty much as it does today when the shit hit the fan.
Yep, huge differences. There will be enough social, economic and political challenges for the European nations to master in the future. I wholeheartedly believe that the the only meaningful future for Europe is a strong Union and not bickering nation states, each trying to go his own way.
I don't know how to respond to this but i shall try
We don't wish to sever our ties with Europe or Europeans we wish to reframe our relationship outside of the existing parameters, this means that the good and the bad of the EU and its apparatus are dis-guarded and the UK assumes a similar relationship to the European bloc as say Canada, the United States or Timbuktu none of whom pay a penny towards the EU budget, nor so far as I'm aware do they accept unlimted freedom of movement (though that for me at any rate is not a hardcore redline) and none of whom deal with the political baggage that comes from the current arrangements which the UK has, it is the democratically determined feeling that the EU in its current form and for many of us who have an interest in the path it is currently taking does not represent what we feel is best for our countries interests, it has also poisoned a generation of voters who are fed up with the buck being passed over who is responsible for what problems, is it our politicians or the administrators of the largest and consequently a most opaque social experiment the world has ever seen? Who knows there is plenty of evidence to finger both sides, but it is time to hold politicians to account for their decisions and when we are granted both the means and the motive to do so, is it so unreasonable to exercise that right?
We were given the a democratic choice and a quite brilliantly inept and dishonest campaign by both
sides of the argument, and then we were threatened and coerced by our own prime minsiter, president Obama and the European Commission to vote in 1 way or face the consequences, they called it wrong because they expected people who are dis-satisfied with the status quo to blink.
That said rather than throwing the collective dummy out of the pram, we have two choices, we can behave as adults and look to salvage a position which is not in the best short term interests of all involved or we can continue the proverbial mexican standoff until we leave to paddle our own canoe, with or without a mutually beneficial relationship where we continue to cooperate on security the environment etc and mutually beneficial trades continue with minimum hassle and political nonsense and chest beating.
You should ask yourself from the perspective of the mystery person who sparked the latest spat (and it is a very short list of suspects) between the UK and the EU, what is the worst that could happen, is it that the UK sinks into oblivion and Fragments with all the consequences that entails for the rest of Europe or is it that the UK finds a way to survive and indeed thrive outside of the current framework and yet continues to be a good and reliable neighbor who shares common ground with many of the principles which the EU members hold dear when the world outside of Europe threatens to blow the door down? When you find the answer to that question you might get an idea of why the EU is not universally viewed through rose tinted spectacles in this country.
I should add a big fucking disclaimer to this text that it has been abbreviated by about 75% before i clicked the submit button, so please excuse any typos or nonsense arriving from having consumed several glasses of quite excellent Aussie Wine
I hope your buratino's die screaming.