#Brexit vote coming soon.

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REDDQ
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Re: #Brexit vote coming soon.

Postby REDDQ » Wed 1 Jun 2016 23:49



Well, that doesn't seem like much :)

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Re: #Brexit vote coming soon.

Postby delfo » Thu 2 Jun 2016 01:51

Turkey isn't joining the EU. Because it would have to accept a new legal framework and the enforcement of it from a place far far away from them. And you can try a cartooninst in Germany to apease Erdogan but that doesn't mean he won't get an acquittal and then renumeration for his troubles. Turkey wants an economic stimulus, implicit ECB support, a free trade zone and that's it. None of the pesky laws and rights. Imagine if a guy from Turkey can sue his country the same way a Bulgarian can sue Bulgaria and the Prime minister for the use of unothorized force in a police raid. That juist won't do. ( Boiko Borisov lost that case even though he's prime minister )

As to the Brexit thing. What is Brexit going to grant ? Five million new nationals who will take up the vacated jobs ? An automatic return to the economic status of the 1930s ? Being independant and important isn't the same thing. The distrust directed at new refugees from Syria is weird given that the most extremist religion in the UK is Sikhism based on the polls. Indira Gandhi would probably say a few things about that too. Had she not been assasintaed by her Sikh Bodygaurd for making the difficult call to put down a Sikh armed rebelion.

Finally the allusion that Britain has had a good voting system historically. Well historically depends on where you cut it off at. If it's in the 1950s sure. Any further back than that and we're going to have words. Like Plurality vote, Rotten and Pocket Boroughs, Wellington's seat in parliament, why an Irishman was less of a voter than an Englishman.

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Mitchverr
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Re: #Brexit vote coming soon.

Postby Mitchverr » Thu 2 Jun 2016 02:14

delfo wrote:Turkey isn't joining the EU. Because it would have to accept a new legal framework and the enforcement of it from a place far far away from them. And you can try a cartooninst in Germany to apease Erdogan but that doesn't mean he won't get an acquittal and then renumeration for his troubles. Turkey wants an economic stimulus, implicit ECB support, a free trade zone and that's it. None of the pesky laws and rights. Imagine if a guy from Turkey can sue his country the same way a Bulgarian can sue Bulgaria and the Prime minister for the use of unothorized force in a police raid. That juist won't do. ( Boiko Borisov lost that case even though he's prime minister )

As to the Brexit thing. What is Brexit going to grant ? Five million new nationals who will take up the vacated jobs ? An automatic return to the economic status of the 1930s ? Being independant and important isn't the same thing. The distrust directed at new refugees from Syria is weird given that the most extremist religion in the UK is Sikhism based on the polls. Indira Gandhi would probably say a few things about that too. Had she not been assasintaed by her Sikh Bodygaurd for making the difficult call to put down a Sikh armed rebelion.

Finally the allusion that Britain has had a good voting system historically. Well historically depends on where you cut it off at. If it's in the 1950s sure. Any further back than that and we're going to have words. Like Plurality vote, Rotten and Pocket Boroughs, Wellington's seat in parliament, why an Irishman was less of a voter than an Englishman.


For the Turkey thing, what they want and you missed is to join the free movement of peoples within the EU, that is a seriously bad idea and its possibly going to happen, they will be in the EU in all but name due to taking advantage of the refugee crisis, the fact the EU is yielding to the blackmail shows how weak it is. They want all the bonuses of being in the EU without the need to be a EU style democracy.


5 million new nationals how? Are you suggesting all british people will be exiled and forced to return to the UK? Multiple EU states would be livid over this due to the likelyhood of their own being forced to return also. Who said we want to remain "important"? Theres also the nice thing of being in the unimportant area, where you can setup trade deals for yourself if you even want them beyond reduced tariffs(the UK still makes enough important things and import enough to have sway here), the UK only has a trade deal with iirc 2 of the 10 it trades with most outside the EU as is. And why would the UK go to the 1930s in economy? Thats a scare mongering comment if ever seen lol, they say that about the Danes if they dont join, but it never happens.

Sikhs are not the ones demanding i be illegal at a 9 to 1 basis in the polls lol or have a scary number of people whom would not report somebody they believe planning a terror attack. Sikhs also are not the 1s en mass demanding shariah or the 1s being investigated by government now for massive corruption and abuse of the legal systems put in place for their religion. Though the Sikh extremism is growing(and should be investigated and stopped), they are not the 1s whom are publically active and found in cases with thousands of raped girls in them either, thats why people dont want more immigrants to come into the UK from those areas if its race based, but most simply dont want them because we are full (i divert to the many times i had to explain that the uk doesnt build enough homes or have enough doctors, police or transportation to deal with the current populations yet alone add to it).

For the vote thing, you do realise it wasnt much better in other countries too right till more recently? Context is key, and going back to the 1832 is quiet silly, no?
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Re: #Brexit vote coming soon.

Postby D-M » Thu 2 Jun 2016 03:26

btw what's particularly anti-democratic with the EU ?
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Re: #Brexit vote coming soon.

Postby Bullfrog » Thu 2 Jun 2016 03:51

D-M wrote:btw what's particularly anti-democratic with the EU ?


I hear something leaked about a secret EU Army ;)
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Re: #Brexit vote coming soon.

Postby Shrike » Thu 2 Jun 2016 05:14

Bullfrog wrote:
D-M wrote:btw what's particularly anti-democratic with the EU ?


I hear something leaked about a secret EU Army ;)

Eurocorps finally nerfed?

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Re: #Brexit vote coming soon.

Postby delfo » Thu 2 Jun 2016 08:45

Mitchverr wrote:For the Turkey thing, what they want and you missed is to join the free movement of peoples within the EU, that is a seriously bad idea and its possibly going to happen, they will be in the EU in all but name due to taking advantage of the refugee crisis, the fact the EU is yielding to the blackmail shows how weak it is. They want all the bonuses of being in the EU without the need to be a EU style democracy.


Mitch, Bulgaria is in the EU but we are not part of the Schengen area. That's fear mongering about foreigners. There's also a Turkish diaspora of considerable size in Germany too and unlike the one in Bulgaria, it's only half a cenutury old.

Mitchverr wrote:5 million new nationals how? Are you suggesting all british people will be exiled and forced to return to the UK? Multiple EU states would be livid over this due to the likelyhood of their own being forced to return also. Who said we want to remain "important"? Theres also the nice thing of being in the unimportant area, where you can setup trade deals for yourself if you even want them beyond reduced tariffs(the UK still makes enough important things and import enough to have sway here), the UK only has a trade deal with iirc 2 of the 10 it trades with most outside the EU as is. And why would the UK go to the 1930s in economy? Thats a scare mongering comment if ever seen lol, they say that about the Danes if they dont join, but it never happens.


5 million is the rough short-term UK shortfall of workers when you limit access to the UK. I am eyeballing future UK retirees which the labor force can't cover alone. You could even say 8. There are more people employed in the UK than there are active working age British nationals. I think that's a well known fact. Leaving the EU would also lead to re-establishment of the entire process to get into the country. During the 1930s the UK was an economic heavyweight and the center of the empire. After an exit from the EU that status will not be returned. If you are thinking that I am scaring you with much different and antiquated economy of the 1930s I am not. I am telling you that the UK had a lot more in terms of international standing. However if it leaves the EU the comapanies who have not had to move their operations due to the EU status would relocate their operations inside the bigger economy. You will at the same time have a lack of workers to do low paying service jobs and a surplus of workers for high paying service jobs.



Sikhs are not the ones demanding i be illegal at a 9 to 1 basis in the polls lol or have a scary number of people whom would not report somebody they believe planning a terror attack. Sikhs also are not the 1s en mass demanding shariah or the 1s being investigated by government now for massive corruption and abuse of the legal systems put in place for their religion. Though the Sikh extremism is growing(and should be investigated and stopped), they are not the 1s whom are publically active and found in cases with thousands of raped girls in them either, thats why people dont want more immigrants to come into the UK from those areas if its race based, but most simply dont want them because we are full (i divert to the many times i had to explain that the uk doesnt build enough homes or have enough doctors, police or transportation to deal with the current populations yet alone add to it).



It's around 50% on the illegal bit based on recent polls. Close to Bible Belt areas in the US.

The Sikhs having times higher percentage who supported terrorist tactics ( the only pop with double digits ). It's an example that the preconceived most extremist ethnicities aren't necessarily that.

Sharia law is an issue near and dear to the younger muslim nationals. It has vastly smaller support among older mulsims nationals in the UK who have not been raised during the last two decades. That's not a refugee issue. That's a British national issue. The rapist comment is erh... Are some of them good people ?

If it's domestic issues within the family those stem from a patriachial society first and religion is used as a shoed in justification.

On doctors:

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style ... 87906.html

As to housing. Tower blocks have a stigma. Properties that can be renovated or demolished and rebuilt are over a million units. ( I am adding the industrial zones ) The construction is low, artifcially even. Add the ownership versus rent thing for new households and there you go. But Brexit isn't going to solve the issues of changing the housing unit preference or ownership bias or correct the construction and renovation speeds. No, it will just grind the housing market to a stop.

Mitchverr wrote:For the vote thing, you do realise it wasnt much better in other countries too right till more recently? Context is key, and going back to the 1832 is quiet silly, no?


Yet plurality voting was a thing till 1948.
Universal sufferage wasn't a universal thing till 1928.

Prior to that some women and some men had a vote. And some rich people had votes. Plural.




That article is bad.

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And the UK is part of the Eurozone since when ? Also it's a lie:

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/tgm/refres ... anguage=en

And then the scale where 60 percent of the value makes up 10% of the scale.

The developing world achieving enough development for some of them to afford a car is the fault of shitty EU economic policy...
Last edited by delfo on Thu 2 Jun 2016 12:10, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: #Brexit vote coming soon.

Postby Frencho » Thu 2 Jun 2016 11:53

Delfo stop making sense.

You're supposed to encourage them to leave :mrgreen:

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Re: #Brexit vote coming soon.

Postby delfo » Thu 2 Jun 2016 11:56

Frencho wrote:Delfo stop making sense.

You're supposed to encourage them to leave :mrgreen:


First give me a vote of confidence in Poland and Hungary which leads to the cabinets of both those countries lose power and have to hold early elections and then we can talk about it.

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Re: #Brexit vote coming soon.

Postby Pr.shadocko » Thu 2 Jun 2016 12:15

I remember reading the 2005 european treaty (the one, French people killed by voting against) and being amazed by how much exceptions and special articles there was for UK. (was not alone tho)

I can't tell if the more scared by the result are the English financial world or the european financial world which will lost their biggest supporter within EU institution.

I don't understand how some pro-brexit seems to think they will managed to get a special deal, just after saying "hey look, i am out of here". Getting such a deal after 10 years, i can understand but in the years after? Nah, no politics within EU will take such risk and sign what would be the EU death symbol for so many nationalistic groups.
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