Greece goes Poland: The aftermath of WW2 resistance

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varis
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Greece goes Poland: The aftermath of WW2 resistance

Postby varis » Sun 12 Jun 2016 23:42

What I've recently learned from history: if you want to start pointing, you'll soon run out of fingers.

Watching some interesting documentary (started from piece 6/6 due to TL;DW) about the WW2 resistance movements in Europe. Theme for this episode: previous illusions get shattered as the small nations become pawns in a larger power politics. In case of Warsaw, there was an uprising but first Stalin abandoned that to the germans, later the allies abandon the original PL govt (which they supported earlier) in favour of Stalin's Poland.

In case of Greece:
-Earmarked for the western sphere of power
-Churchill wanted to reinstate the (hugely unpopular) monarchy
-The socialist resistance controlled a fair bit of the country
-They gave the power back to the people, and restored working government
-The german troops evacuated from Athens, but there was fierce fighting between the resistance and the british
-Civil war in 1946 (cheers!)
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Re: Greece goes Poland: The aftermath of WW2 resistance

Postby delfo » Mon 13 Jun 2016 00:04

I can show you some coordinates from the Greek dorms in Plovdiv. They were still around when I was a child.

http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=42.13 ... 5&z=19&m=b

This building was it in my home town.

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Re: Greece goes Poland: The aftermath of WW2 resistance

Postby REDDQ » Mon 13 Jun 2016 00:18

varis wrote: Stalin abandoned that to the germans


He would have to know about uprising first to abandon it. Polish generals, real thinkers... in all matters but military as it was proven.


The connection is there, Greece really went to Poland in form of refugees who eventually fled the victorious Regime of the Colonels.

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Re: Greece goes Poland: The aftermath of WW2 resistance

Postby delfo » Mon 13 Jun 2016 00:26

REDDQ wrote:
The connection is there, Greece really went to Poland in form of refugees who eventually fled the victorious Regime of the Colonels.


This leaves some issues till this day. For example due to the Colonels handling of the Athens University riots where tanks went in is still haveing an effect today. If you have anarchist in Thess or Athens when they go on a riot ( which happens with SWAT teams deployed on the streets at all times ) they then rush to the state university in Thess ( in my case ) and the police can't go in to remove them. Similar with SYRIZA riotining but I wasn't in Greece for that. I mean when it happened the whole city centre would be off limits.

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Re: Greece goes Poland: The aftermath of WW2 resistance

Postby chykka » Mon 13 Jun 2016 00:37

The guns the citizenry had at the time probably were a catalyst. The Allies didn't get directly involved and it was domestic struggle against occupation.
Greece definitely is in lots of turmoil still, with their economy and all the political Strife. They got extremist on three or more sides.
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Re: Greece goes Poland: The aftermath of WW2 resistance

Postby varis » Mon 13 Jun 2016 01:15

Think the title of the documentary is this:

Les Combattants de l’ombre [Shadow Fighters Tell Their Story], a documentary series on the Resistance, co-produced and broadcast on Arte; by Bernard George
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Re: Greece goes Poland: The aftermath of WW2 resistance

Postby Gyg » Mon 13 Jun 2016 07:55

REDDQ wrote:
varis wrote: Stalin abandoned that to the germans

He would have to know about uprising first to abandon it. Polish generals, real thinkers... in all matters but military as it was proven.

Don't defend Stalin- he left uprising to fail on purpose. There were plans to assualt Vistula river via Warsaw by Rokossowski but Stalin intentionally held the offensive.

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Re: Greece goes Poland: The aftermath of WW2 resistance

Postby REDDQ » Mon 13 Jun 2016 09:14

Gyg wrote:
REDDQ wrote:
varis wrote: Stalin abandoned that to the germans

He would have to know about uprising first to abandon it. Polish generals, real thinkers... in all matters but military as it was proven.

Don't defend Stalin- he left uprising to fail on purpose. There were plans to assualt Vistula river via Warsaw by Rokossowski but Stalin intentionally held the offensive.

Defend him from what? What I said is factually true. He did not know, no one did. This way that hot wired mess (fun fact, up to this point weapons were smuggled OUT of Warsaw because uprising there was deemed impossible to pull off) failed to get not only Soviet but Allied support as well. Polish paratroopers went to France after all. If Soviets would promise the support first and then refuse, now that would be the completely different thing.

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Re: Greece goes Poland: The aftermath of WW2 resistance

Postby Mitchverr » Mon 13 Jun 2016 10:34

REDDQ wrote:. Polish paratroopers went to France after all.


Yeah, should have landed in poland, just have to go around the entire country of Germany, im sure they would have been fine watching it :lol:


Its something i will never understand, why people blame the allies for what happened with Poland, the allies were on the opposite side of europe, the hell were they supposed to do any of these things people think of like drop a load of paratroopers in poland? Dropping the odd spy and weapons cache is 1 thing but several hundred/thousand heavily armed men generally gets spotted.

When it comes to greece, legit criticism can be made, but Poland, not so much, as the allies lost a crapton (and some countries fell trying to fight for poland) fighting the Germans and Japanese, they couldnt also move vs the Russians to save Poland, sometimes you simply cant reach that goal. I mean hell, Churchill even came up with a nuts plan to have the D-day landing be in the balkans, and push north to Warsaw and cut the Russians out the war, but it was shut down by the Americans whom thought that Churchills fear of Stalin wasnt justified and that Stalin wouldnt go all empire building.
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Re: Greece goes Poland: The aftermath of WW2 resistance

Postby delfo » Mon 13 Jun 2016 10:42

Mitchverr wrote:
REDDQ wrote:. Polish paratroopers went to France after all.


Yeah, should have landed in poland, just have to go around the entire country of Germany, im sure they would have been fine watching it :lol:


Its something i will never understand, why people blame the allies for what happened with Poland, the allies were on the opposite side of europe, the hell were they supposed to do any of these things people think of like drop a load of paratroopers in poland? Dropping the odd spy and weapons cache is 1 thing but several hundred/thousand heavily armed men generally gets spotted.

When it comes to greece, legit criticism can be made, but Poland, not so much, as the allies lost a crapton (and some countries fell trying to fight for poland) fighting the Germans and Japanese, they couldnt also move vs the Russians to save Poland, sometimes you simply cant reach that goal. I mean hell, Churchill even came up with a nuts plan to have the D-day landing be in the balkans, and push north to Warsaw and cut the Russians out the war, but it was shut down by the Americans.


Given that by April 1944 the Bulgarian regency was changing the governments and moving to place ally friendly government to since a peace with the western allies it's not a bad idea. ( Bulgaria never declared on the Soviet Union, the Soviet union declared on the eve of a coup organized by the officer's club which coincided with a delay urged by the war minister on the declaration of war on Germany. That happened in September )

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