Bastille Day 2016

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[EUG]MadMat
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Re: Bastille Day 2016

Postby [EUG]MadMat » Fri 15 Jul 2016 09:49

Romiros wrote:May I ask how exactly truck get to that street? I mean, If it was closed for cars, then there should be permanent road blocks, if it was closed only for that event, there should be police temporary road blocks. How do that kind of road regulations even work?

The Promenade des Anglais (meaning Englishmen's Walk) is a 7 km long avenue with a large pedestrian sideway along the beach.
I don't know if they even closed the driveway yesterday, there's enough space to accomodate the crowd on the walkway & beach to watch the fireworks. If so, the terrorist may have driven normaly on the driveway, then suddenly steer the wheel to bring the truck on the walkway.

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Re: Bastille Day 2016

Postby Frencho » Fri 15 Jul 2016 10:05

Romiros wrote:May I ask how exactly truck get to that street? I mean, If it was closed for cars, then there should be permanent road blocks, if it was closed only for that event, there should be police temporary road blocks. How do that kind of road regulations even work?

The Promenade des Anglais is a famous avenue near the beach in Nice, it's a double lane avenue with an extra a bicycle lane and a large sidewalk for pedestrians.
https://goo.gl/maps/kzGEnSXQX2F2

But it was not closed down for Bastille Day, plenty of cars were driving on it. There were no barriers whatsoever, if you close that avenue you provoke traffic jams everywhere in Nice.

You just needed to see any video about the terrorist attack, you'll see several cars driving on the avenue.

You may be confusing it with the security measures after the Attack happened. As the Promenade des Anglais is now exceptionally closed off for forensics.

Lastly, only hefty, huge roadblocks would have stopped that truck, have you seen it it was huge.
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P.S :
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The attack did not start on the closed off pedestrian zone (in green) but about 1,5 Km before, when we got to the Pedestrian zone he just plowed through the barriers.

P.S 2: The pedestrian zone was fairly well secured in the sense that the truck driver was shot down quickly, after 200 ms, by the Police present there.
Last edited by Frencho on Fri 15 Jul 2016 13:58, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Bastille Day 2016

Postby Darkmil » Fri 15 Jul 2016 11:01

"What a surprise ! When terrorist operation are as simple as bank robbery or even simpler you can't prevent them. I really thought putting 10,000 exhausted soldiers in the streets would change it..."

Our politicians still have not understood (those that are not in power) that there is a no preventing such attacks. Those that are in power may well be using soldiers and policemen for "advertisement" (sorry I don't know how to say "communication" in the political sense in English, if someone could be kind enough to teach me).

At least I've heard on the radio some analysts FINALLY understanding the real shape and nature of those attacks.
Maybe our politicians will finally understand the sole bombing of IS is meaningless and you either have to leave or to deploy actual troops.
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Re: Bastille Day 2016

Postby REDDQ » Fri 15 Jul 2016 11:02

My sympathies. It must be the deadliest attack against Europeans since the destruction of Russian airliner in Egypt. And a simple truck did this.

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Re: Bastille Day 2016

Postby Frencho » Fri 15 Jul 2016 12:04

Daesh is doing so poorly at it's home front in the Levant they have been resorting to psychological tactics, AKA Terrorist Attacks in Baghdad, Orlando, Istanbul and now Nice. Standard procedure when they are losing just to cover up the fact that they are getting hammered.

Well what do you expect Hollande lack resolve, courage and authority, and is clueless about defence topics and war to begin with. Being literate about those subjects should be mandatory for any Statesman, especially if we're talking ruling a world power.

He is not only prolonging the State of Emergency by 3 months, he is tapping into the Operational Reserves. Meaning any former Gendarme and Military Vet will be called to patrol the streets.

It's stupid. Our troops have not properly trained for more than a year now, acting like glorified sentries and bouncers. And believe they are sick of this shit, they don't want to patrol they want to fight and engage the enemy.

Both good reads on why Opération Sentinelle is a waste of everyone's time.
A partir de quel montant accepte-t-on l’échec ? En finir avec l'opération Sentinelle
Le goût du Fer

Having troops patrolling the streets might reassure the dumbest, simplest of citizens but not much more and won't stop any further attacks. Only way to do so is by striking at the root of the problem.

Disenfranchised minorities in France and the Levant being the greatest recruiting land for Jihad since the Crusades (thanks Bush, Blair and Obama), and soon Libya if we don't do shit (thanks Sarkozy and Cameron).

Funny, I remember a few months back conversing with a friend saying having troops on the street was the right call and that we should apply Israeli level of draconian security measures. I laughed.

Have you been to Tel Aviv or Jerusalem friend? Curfews and martial law in certain territories, then having to deal with bank like security doors, then metal detectors then widespread bag searches at every establishment (even restaurants), plus frequent patrols and armed citizens. And they still get rammed by cars at least twice a year and stabbing sprees are common.

No, it doesn't solve shit, Israelis still die to recurrent terrorist attacks and they traded away most of their liberties.

But well, as Michel Goya said, Flamby declared that we are at "War", yet this is the first "War" where only French civilians are killed...
Last edited by Frencho on Fri 15 Jul 2016 12:37, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Bastille Day 2016

Postby delfo » Fri 15 Jul 2016 12:22

Frencho wrote:Daesh is doing so poorly at it's home front in the Levant they have been resorting to psychological tactics, AKA Terrorist Attacks in Baghdad, Orlando, Istanbul and now Nice. Standard procedure when they are losing just to cover up the fact that they are getting hammered.


No one in ISIS's networks claimed it yesterday. Expect it to be a sympathizer not a member and a larger plot ordered from Syria.

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Re: Bastille Day 2016

Postby Frencho » Fri 15 Jul 2016 12:25

Darkmil wrote:At least I've heard on the radio some analysts FINALLY understanding the real shape and nature of those attacks.
Maybe our politicians will finally understand the sole bombing of IS is meaningless and you either have to leave or to deploy actual troops.


Well, the actual analysts and scholars and not some media "analyst" hacks like BHL or the BFM/Itele goons have been saying this for 3 years now.

But the government does not listen to them, retired General Vincent Desportes said that there would be a mass terrorist attack and that it was inevitable, less than 2 weeks before November the 13th. Also Michel Goya, Jean Pierre filiu , Olivier Roy and Gilles Kepel have been consistent since the last 2 years or more on their critics.

Well Oliver Roy and Gilles Kepel are at each other's throats. Gilles Kepel teaches at my University, I just graduated but I never took any of his courses. Yet the feedback I got about him from classmates is that he is pretty full of himself and too, ehm, scholarly and disconnected from the field. They vastly prefered Filiu's courses who also teaches there.

Regarding the scholarly dispute I tend to agree more with Olivier Roy, but the government and the media tends to listen exclusively to Gilles Kepel. It's a mistake he is not wrong about everything but when you see the background of every terrorist in France, most are not hardcore super orthodox salafists trained in the Levant. Just troubled petty criminals from disenfranchised minorities that use Jihad as an excuse to vent their loserdom and anger. They still deserve to be locked up or shot tough.
Last edited by Frencho on Fri 15 Jul 2016 12:34, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Bastille Day 2016

Postby Frencho » Fri 15 Jul 2016 12:27

delfo wrote:
Frencho wrote:Daesh is doing so poorly at it's home front in the Levant they have been resorting to psychological tactics, AKA Terrorist Attacks in Baghdad, Orlando, Istanbul and now Nice. Standard procedure when they are losing just to cover up the fact that they are getting hammered.


No one in ISIS's networks claimed it yesterday. Expect it to be a sympathizer not a member and a larger plot ordered from Syria.


Well seeing it takes a quick facebook post or a like, it's so easy for lone wolf sympathizers to endorse Daesh they will probably recuperate the attack like they did for Orlando.

Now every lone wolf can be an ISIS member :roll:.

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Re: Bastille Day 2016

Postby delfo » Fri 15 Jul 2016 12:33

Frencho wrote:
delfo wrote:
Frencho wrote:Daesh is doing so poorly at it's home front in the Levant they have been resorting to psychological tactics, AKA Terrorist Attacks in Baghdad, Orlando, Istanbul and now Nice. Standard procedure when they are losing just to cover up the fact that they are getting hammered.


No one in ISIS's networks claimed it yesterday. Expect it to be a sympathizer not a member and a larger plot ordered from Syria.


Well seeing it takes a quick facebook post or a like, it's so easy for lone wolf sympathizers to endorse Daesh they will probably recuperate the attack like they did for Orlando.

Now every lone wolf can be an ISIS member :roll:.


This is the only official infographic from ISIS thus far. It calls for more lonewolf sympathizers. Since it happened their networks have not claimed responcibility.

https://twitter.com/jenanmoussa/status/ ... 1240749056

It's also closer to the pattern seen in Israel where palestinians ram cars and trucks into crowds.

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Re: Bastille Day 2016

Postby Darkmil » Fri 15 Jul 2016 12:37

Frencho wrote:Now every lone wolf can be an ISIS member :roll:.

Let's not assume anything for now. Nothing is leading us to think he worked for/with ISIS, no one claimed the attack, and no sign is showing any kind a allegiance to ISIS for this man. Let's wait for any further info. I am particularly cautious with this attack.
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