World news thread

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Bougnas
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Re: World news thread

Postby Bougnas » Wed 27 Sep 2017 20:48

Mike wrote:
another505 wrote:
Admiral Piett wrote:
I have zero faith. :lol:

At this rate, we are going to fly Cessna 172


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embraer_E ... per_Tucano

It's Cheeaaapppp!

But buying 3 could get you 1 Strike Eagle so eh.


Meh. I'm really surprised that modern COIN planes are so terrible.

Seriously, can't we get the equivalent of a freaking A-1 Skyraider with modern avionics and engine? This monster could carry twice as much ammo as this pityful little thing. Or even an heavily modernized Pucara?

Really if you want to go full on prop planes like it's WW2 again do it right. Best ones could exceed 750kph at that time.



BTW #MakeThePucaraGreatAgain.
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Re: World news thread

Postby Vulcan 607 » Wed 27 Sep 2017 22:04

Problem is nothing matches the A10 or su25, these cheap coin planes are either too lightly armed and armoured or too expensive. Only one has been successfully in U.S. service in recent years and that's the OV10 that has been supporting special forces in the middle east. It is amusing really that modern turboprop COIN aircraft can't match their Vietnam and post ww2 rivals

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Re: World news thread

Postby Killertomato » Thu 28 Sep 2017 00:34

Bougnas wrote:
Meh. I'm really surprised that modern COIN planes are so terrible.

Seriously, can't we get the equivalent of a freaking A-1 Skyraider with modern avionics and engine?
This monster could carry twice as much ammo as this pityful little thing. Or even an heavily modernized Pucara?


No need. The Piper PA-48 Enforcer was basically a Mustang with a turboprop and space for 2500kg of payload... and nobody bought it.

People have tried marketing sub-A-10 but better-than-training-plane COIN aircraft for decades and decades and nobody's bought any of them. Modern avionics is what makes the airplanes useful- and also what makes them expensive.

There's no reason to buy a dedicated COIN bird (expensive, useless in a real war) when you can buy helicopter gunships (also useful in a real war) or dual-role trainers (everyone needs training aircraft) instead.

Besides, 250lb of LGB, aimed via FLIR, can do a looooot more than 2000lb of unguided bomb in a COIN situation.
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Re: World news thread

Postby Grabbed_by_the_Spets » Thu 28 Sep 2017 03:26

Vulcan 607 wrote:Problem is nothing matches the A10 or su25, these cheap coin planes are either too lightly armed and armoured or too expensive. Only one has been successfully in U.S. service in recent years and that's the OV10 that has been supporting special forces in the middle east. It is amusing really that modern turboprop COIN aircraft can't match their Vietnam and post ww2 rivals


Considering that the losses of aircraft during the Gulf/Iraqi wars was in the tens, and that the losses in Vietnam was in the thousands, I'm going to have to disagree with you there.
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Re: World news thread

Postby Vulcan 607 » Thu 28 Sep 2017 08:36

Grabbed_by_the_Spets wrote:
Vulcan 607 wrote:Problem is nothing matches the A10 or su25, these cheap coin planes are either too lightly armed and armoured or too expensive. Only one has been successfully in U.S. service in recent years and that's the OV10 that has been supporting special forces in the middle east. It is amusing really that modern turboprop COIN aircraft can't match their Vietnam and post ww2 rivals


Considering that the losses of aircraft during the Gulf/Iraqi wars was in the tens, and that the losses in Vietnam was in the thousands, I'm going to have to disagree with you there.


Very different tactics not to mention over a longer period of time. Also Pilots didn't get court marshalled for attacking SAM sites. It's also a lesson not to use tactical bombers in the strategic role. The problem in Vietnam was tactics or really the lack of them. The US would use the same routes in and out allowing the NVA to place their AAA and SAMs for maximum effect. Apparently the US would even tell the NVA they were coming! Another issue was US pilots had never faced SAMs before and stopped training pilots for dogfights

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Re: World news thread

Postby Bougnas » Thu 28 Sep 2017 17:36

Killertomato wrote:
Bougnas wrote:
Meh. I'm really surprised that modern COIN planes are so terrible.

Seriously, can't we get the equivalent of a freaking A-1 Skyraider with modern avionics and engine?
This monster could carry twice as much ammo as this pityful little thing. Or even an heavily modernized Pucara?


No need. The Piper PA-48 Enforcer was basically a Mustang with a turboprop and space for 2500kg of payload... and nobody bought it.

People have tried marketing sub-A-10 but better-than-training-plane COIN aircraft for decades and decades and nobody's bought any of them. Modern avionics is what makes the airplanes useful- and also what makes them expensive.

There's no reason to buy a dedicated COIN bird (expensive, useless in a real war) when you can buy helicopter gunships (also useful in a real war) or dual-role trainers (everyone needs training aircraft) instead.

Besides, 250lb of LGB, aimed via FLIR, can do a looooot more than 2000lb of unguided bomb in a COIN situation.


I didn't mean that they shouldn't be able to carry guided weapons. But good point here.
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Re: World news thread

Postby Vulcan 607 » Thu 28 Sep 2017 23:50

Bougnas wrote:
Killertomato wrote:
Bougnas wrote:
Meh. I'm really surprised that modern COIN planes are so terrible.

Seriously, can't we get the equivalent of a freaking A-1 Skyraider with modern avionics and engine?
This monster could carry twice as much ammo as this pityful little thing. Or even an heavily modernized Pucara?


No need. The Piper PA-48 Enforcer was basically a Mustang with a turboprop and space for 2500kg of payload... and nobody bought it.

People have tried marketing sub-A-10 but better-than-training-plane COIN aircraft for decades and decades and nobody's bought any of them. Modern avionics is what makes the airplanes useful- and also what makes them expensive.

There's no reason to buy a dedicated COIN bird (expensive, useless in a real war) when you can buy helicopter gunships (also useful in a real war) or dual-role trainers (everyone needs training aircraft) instead.

Besides, 250lb of LGB, aimed via FLIR, can do a looooot more than 2000lb of unguided bomb in a COIN situation.


I didn't mean that they shouldn't be able to carry guided weapons. But good point here.


U.S. Congress wanted that unarmoured antique to do the CAS role over central Europe if the cold war went hot! Unsurprisingly the PA48 performed terribly when compared to the hog they also found it couldn't carry a GPU-5 gun pod so it didn't even have a gun.(even f16s couldn't use it properly in Iraq)

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Re: World news thread

Postby orcbuster » Fri 29 Sep 2017 03:09

Aircraft initial purchase cost is essentially irrelevant in long term cost figures. What matters is maintenance cost per flight hour. It here that the super tucanos shines well beyond the old planes. A-10s are not cheap in this regard. They cost the same to maintain pr hour as an F-16.
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Re: World news thread

Postby Grabbed_by_the_Spets » Fri 29 Sep 2017 04:12

orcbuster wrote: They cost the same to maintain pr hour as an F-16.


Wait, really?
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