World news thread

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Re: World news thread

Postby Fade2Gray » Sat 21 Oct 2017 00:36

Frencho wrote:
Fade2Gray wrote:
Frencho wrote:Fast Forward 2015, M1A2s, Leopard 2A4s, T-90s and Merkava IVs (2006 Lebanon) are literally getting blown up by Soviet era ATGMs. Many suffering catastrophic damage with ammunition cook offs, turret pops and all. Yet a Leclerc could take a frontal Kornet ATGM hit with no structural damage and was quickly repaired, driver was killed though.

This is a really bad comparison. Taking a hit from the front is rarely as bad as getting hit from the side, which has happened many times with M1s and Leo2s with the fight against ISIS. Your analysis is flawed.


There's a video of a Saudi M1A2 taking a front ATGM hit with ammunition cook off...

Please tell me you have more than one case to reference for this, because otherwise I'm going to outright dismiss it. Also, exactly where was it hit?
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Re: World news thread

Postby another505 » Sat 21 Oct 2017 00:40

Frencho wrote:T-14 Armata is nothing but a technology demonstrator by now, Uralvagonzavod is barely afloat, Russian Regime threw them a lifeline by buying more T-72 B3/4 because they cant afford T-14.

I think they always bullshitted with the T-14 Armata's price range, being 6 million USD an unit tops, I guess it must cost around 10 -12 million... And if it is that cheap it means they're not using ultra light, ultra compact composite modules/plating as using those always puts you on a 10 million USD price range minimum...

Only innovative thing is that the turret is not crewed, so I guess the turret is not that well armoured.


AESA radar, for air/ground detection, APS and firing solution
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Re: World news thread

Postby Frencho » Sat 21 Oct 2017 00:53

Fade2Gray wrote:Please tell me you have more than one case to reference for this, because otherwise I'm going to outright dismiss it. Also, exactly where was it hit?


Correction, the one suffering an ammunition cook off was hit on the turret bustle from upper ground. There's two other Abrams being hit on this video, I'm positive at least one was hit on the turrets frontal arc resulting in a mission kill (second one in the vid dug in position).



There ware GIFs of other Saudi M1A2s being hit by ATGMs (They've lost about 20), you can try googling them or read through SteelBeast or Armored Warfare threads if you have the time to find them.

another505 wrote:AESA radar, for air/ground detection, APS and firing solution


All these features were already present on the K2 Black Panther, which was officially introduced in 2013, so before Armata... South East Asians are on the top of their game ATM when it comes to MBT tech!
Last edited by Frencho on Sat 21 Oct 2017 00:56, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: World news thread

Postby another505 » Sat 21 Oct 2017 00:56

Frencho wrote:
Fade2Gray wrote:Please tell me you have more than one case to reference for this, because otherwise I'm going to outright dismiss it. Also, exactly where was it hit?


Correction, the one suffering an ammunition cook off was hit on the turret bustle from upper ground, but there's two other Abrams being hit on this video, I'm positive at least one was hit on the turrets frontal arc resulting in a mission kill.



There were other gifs of other Saudi M1A2s being hit by ATGMs (They've lost about 20), you can try googling them or read through SteelBeast or Armored Warfare threads if you have the time to find them.

another505 wrote:AESA radar, for air/ground detection, APS and firing solution


All these features were already present on the K2 black Panther, which was officially introduced in 2013, so before Armata... South East Asians are on the top of their game ATM when it comes to MBT tech!

Technically USSR had it first
Norov and black eagle lol, but all were prototypes
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Re: World news thread

Postby Grabbed_by_the_Spets » Sat 21 Oct 2017 03:43

Soviets had ERA and APS systems back in Afghanistan.

But to argue that any tank is immune to ATGM's is stupid, all modern tanks have been penetrated by modern day ATGM's, some are more survivable than others, but none are immune.
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Re: World news thread

Postby Frencho » Sat 21 Oct 2017 04:59

Grabbed_by_the_Spets wrote:Soviets had ERA and APS systems back in Afghanistan.

But to argue that any tank is immune to ATGM's is stupid, all modern tanks have been penetrated by modern day ATGM's, some are more survivable than others, but none are immune.


I'm not arguing that any MBT is immune to ATGMs I just don't agree on dismissing a 48 ton Modern MBT as incapable of handling a hit from Russian weaponry.

Just like the T-90 (46 to 48 tons) at the end of the video I linked, or the Emirati Leclerc (55 to 60 tons), a Type 10 (48 tons) could take a frontal hit, suffer some damage, have injured crew and either reverse into safety or abandoned by the survivors to be recovered and repaired some hours later.

As long as it's not catastrophic structural damage and some of the crew survives, your MBT is not doing badly...

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Re: World news thread

Postby Mike » Sat 21 Oct 2017 06:14

Frencho wrote:There's a video of a Saudi M1A2 taking a front ATGM hit with ammunition cook off...


But, but monkey model.
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Re: World news thread

Postby Frencho » Sat 21 Oct 2017 06:19

Mike wrote:
Frencho wrote:There's a video of a Saudi M1A2 taking a front ATGM hit with ammunition cook off...


But, but monkey model.


:D :lol: :P
In other news:
Well took them long enough, and oh the nationalist salt is so real!

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Re: World news thread

Postby Grabbed_by_the_Spets » Sat 21 Oct 2017 07:35

Mike wrote:But, but monkey model.


Well, they are monkey models of sorts, all export Abram's get their DU walling replaced with tungstain models.

Not exactly tin can Iraqi T-72M's, but still a pretty significant downgrade.
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Re: World news thread

Postby Fade2Gray » Sat 21 Oct 2017 09:49

Frencho wrote:
Grabbed_by_the_Spets wrote:Soviets had ERA and APS systems back in Afghanistan.

But to argue that any tank is immune to ATGM's is stupid, all modern tanks have been penetrated by modern day ATGM's, some are more survivable than others, but none are immune.


I'm not arguing that any MBT is immune to ATGMs I just don't agree on dismissing a 48 ton Modern MBT as incapable of handling a hit from Russian weaponry.

Just like the T-90 (46 to 48 tons) at the end of the video I linked, or the Emirati Leclerc (55 to 60 tons), a Type 10 (48 tons) could take a frontal hit, suffer some damage, have injured crew and either reverse into safety or abandoned by the survivors to be recovered and repaired some hours later.

As long as it's not catastrophic structural damage and some of the crew survives, your MBT is not doing badly...

There's a significant difference in survivablity when you start talking about 15-20+ tons of weight difference. Also, my biggest fear isn't from ATGMs, which are what you are referencing (and with piss poor "evidence" to back up your claims for that matter). There's all sorts of ways of dealing with ATGMs nowadays, and you can safely add in more protection from them without causing massive weight gains.

I'm talking about Russian main gun rounds, which are a whole different matter. APS are not exactly developed enough to protect against sabots just yet even if the Germans are apparently having some success with it.
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