World news thread

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another505
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Re: World news thread

Postby another505 » Tue 20 Mar 2018 00:58

captaincarnage wrote:
another505 wrote:
but ofc, just all my conjectures and conspiracies.


Assuming it is Novichock, who else would be assassinating ex Russian spies in the UK?

Its not like Putin doesn't have form for that already, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Litvinenko


Yes, i did write about Alexander, but its different from last time. Alexander was a huge critic of Putin and i dont see why Russia/putin needs/wants to do it again, and fail so miserably.

Is it completely impossible to create Novichock or get it beside Russia's government. I mean, its from 80s and you don't need a lot. I admit I genuinely have no knowledge about this stuff.
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Re: World news thread

Postby captaincarnage » Tue 20 Mar 2018 01:04

another505 wrote:
Yes, i did write about Alexander, but its different from last time. Alexander was a huge critic of Putin and i dont see why Russia/putin needs/wants to do it again, and fail so miserably.

Is it completely impossible to create Novichock or get it beside Russia's government. I mean, its from 80s and you don't need a lot. I admit I genuinely have no knowledge about this stuff.


So far as i'm aware no one other than Russia made the stuff, the west only found out about it when some dude defected the States who was involved in the programme.

Its a bit difficult to take anything the Russians say seriously at the moment, on the one hand they being pretty smug about the incident, on the other hand they claim to be entirely blameless, you can't have it both ways.

Anyway as and when its confirmed what the substance is and assuming it is what it is believed to be there is bugger all scope for deniability, either they did it or they 'lost' some of it, both accusations are pretty bloody serious.
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Re: World news thread

Postby Markenzwieback » Tue 20 Mar 2018 01:24

If you want to go full tinfoil hat, you can start with the closer family of Skripal. 2012 his wife died of cancer, last year his son in St. Petersburg (liver failure), March 2016 his brother in a car accident. British police/intelligence is investigating those cases again now. Same as with other deaths of (semi-)important Russian figures in London(grad), especially people in the closer circle of Beresowski (which himself died and it couldn't be figured out whether of natural causes or not).

But speaking of what we (don't really) know, its highly likely that British intelligence got something concret. Half of NATO wouldn't go on record supporting the British position after "details have been shared", if there wasn't much in support of it. And its not like the British haven't opened a channel for Moscow to help, stating that if Russia isn't responsible they should present information how the nerve agent made it out of Russian facilities and into the UK.

Regarding the poison itself, the German weekly 'Der Spiegel' actually interviewed one of the scienticsts who helped create it. According to him, the process to producing the poison is extensive and VERY expensive, which is why he doesn't believe any state would invest into producing it nowadays. His theory is that Russia thought Nowitschok wasn't identifiable (aka the West/NATO didn't have a sample to compare it to and identify the type used), but the Americans somehow acquired one for research and passed the data on the Brits.

Edit: Oh and don't forget the biggest reason for the harsh British reaction: Innocent people were put in harms way during the attack on Skripal. One police officer (the first responder) seriously injured and in hospital. Further there might be up to 500 people affected to different degrees, if the investigation team is correct.
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Re: World news thread

Postby Killertomato » Tue 20 Mar 2018 04:39

another505 wrote:
The compound is currently being verified by some international org. so yea, would wait for a bit.
It makes really no sense to me for Russia to use some poison that really speaks that it is Russian unless it wants to be known by the public. But:


Russia does want it to be known to the public, same as Litvinenko. The reason they use rube goldberg bullshit like polonium and nerve gas instead of a knife or a gun is the same reason why Putin was on TV two weeks ago showing off a nuclear-powered cruise missile and an unmanned sub designed to blow NYC off the map a week after the rest of the nukes get to it- it shows, to his domestic audience, that Russia stronk!!1!

another505 wrote:If it is to show that "Western bias hatred" against Russia and raise nationalism. Putin was going to win anyways and if he wasnt going to get the majority he wants, he can cheat like always that doesnt draw so much attention, and there is plenty of "western bias hatred" It only makes russia more alone, less economic power, more discontent in the public.


So, uh, why was state TV talking about the just desserts of traitors after the event? There are no new sanctions, no fewer allies- and every Russian I've read about on the internet is thrilled about it, just like they were about Crimea.

another505 wrote:I feel like there is a lot of reason why UK/West would want to do it themselves.


lmao
orcbuster wrote:USSR gets prototype marsupials, why would you need moose when you got stuff with kickers like that AND transport capability? And I'm not even gonna START on the french Marsupilami, I don't even think thats a real animal! Why no trolls for Norway?

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Re: World news thread

Postby D-M » Tue 20 Mar 2018 19:12

I feel like there is a lot of reason why UK/West would want to do it themselves.
UK get international support, raise slight nationalism, especially brexit has been a mess for more than a year.
Russia more alone, Russia can't really bite back.


That does seems like pebbles considering the price for the british intel agencies.

Like Iraq war that they are "hiding chemical WMD" or screw up Libya

That's actually a very bad example considering Iraq did hide chemical weapons which wasn't a secret since their chemical programs were pretty well known for decade..
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Re: World news thread

Postby Doinize » Wed 21 Mar 2018 00:46

D-M wrote:
Like Iraq war that they are "hiding chemical WMD" or screw up Libya

That's actually a very bad example considering Iraq did hide chemical weapons which wasn't a secret since their chemical programs were pretty well known for decade..

Lybia is a perfect example though...
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Re: World news thread

Postby Killertomato » Wed 21 Mar 2018 01:48

Doinize wrote:Lybia is a perfect example though...


What does Libya have to do with it? What lie was Libya based on?

The problem there was blasting Qaddafi and then leaving the country in chaos.
orcbuster wrote:USSR gets prototype marsupials, why would you need moose when you got stuff with kickers like that AND transport capability? And I'm not even gonna START on the french Marsupilami, I don't even think thats a real animal! Why no trolls for Norway?

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Re: World news thread

Postby D-M » Wed 21 Mar 2018 09:26

Doinize wrote:
D-M wrote:
Like Iraq war that they are "hiding chemical WMD" or screw up Libya

That's actually a very bad example considering Iraq did hide chemical weapons which wasn't a secret since their chemical programs were pretty well known for decade..

Lybia is a perfect example though...



Do you mean there wasn't a civil war ?

Edit: Oh and don't forget the biggest reason for the harsh British reaction: Innocent people were put in harms way during the attack on Skripal. One police officer (the first responder) seriously injured and in hospital. Further there might be up to 500 people affected to different degrees, if the investigation team is correct.


Skripal and his daughter don't count as innocent ?
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Re: World news thread

Postby Markenzwieback » Wed 21 Mar 2018 11:31

D-M wrote:Skripal and his daughter don't count as innocent ?

They were the target. Innocent people in this context referrers to bystanders/people not involved in the entire odeal.
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Re: World news thread

Postby Doinize » Wed 21 Mar 2018 17:09

D-M wrote:Do you mean there wasn't a civil war ?


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Yeah the West had nothing to do with that did they :^)
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