World news thread

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Xeno426
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Re: World news thread

Postby Xeno426 » Thu 5 Oct 2017 00:17

Putin was elected. I guess Russia is more democratic than Britain?
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CloakandDagger wrote:And you're one of the people with the shiny colored name. No wonder the game is in the state it's in.

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Re: World news thread

Postby Doinize » Thu 5 Oct 2017 00:38

Xeno426 wrote:Putin was elected. I guess Russia is more democratic than Britain?

Yes this is definetly not a strawman
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Re: World news thread

Postby Noway » Thu 5 Oct 2017 00:41

"As long as you don't go against the union's treaties and law, or impede the union's stability. The rest is just on a case basis.

I'll swear, I've heard this somewhere, especially the union's stability. But jokes aside, EU definitely imagine about itself what it can too much.
Last edited by Noway on Thu 5 Oct 2017 00:43, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: World news thread

Postby Xeno426 » Thu 5 Oct 2017 00:43

Doinize wrote:
Xeno426 wrote:Putin was elected. I guess Russia is more democratic than Britain?

Yes this is definetly not a strawman

Oh, and this wasn't?
Doinize wrote:Being the Head of State by virtue of who you dad was is democratic now, got it...
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CloakandDagger wrote:And you're one of the people with the shiny colored name. No wonder the game is in the state it's in.

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Re: World news thread

Postby Doinize » Thu 5 Oct 2017 01:20

Xeno426 wrote:
Doinize wrote:
Xeno426 wrote:Putin was elected. I guess Russia is more democratic than Britain?

Yes this is definetly not a strawman

Oh, and this wasn't?
Doinize wrote:Being the Head of State by virtue of who you dad was is democratic now, got it...

No. Nothing strawmany about it. Not the tiniest bit.

But also everyone should stop defending monarchy. Like how hard is it to admit that a monarchy ,where the monarch holds any amount of actual power, is less democratic than a republic. That was the point of a good portion of history...
And no, Im not saying that the UK less democratic than Turkey or Russia because they have a monarch...

But also the man who is currently sending the military into Catalonia should not have the power to do so because of primogenitur...
And that man calling a free referendum (if you ignore the spanish feds trying thier hardest to supress the vote) undemocratic, its nothing short of ridicoulous.
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Re: World news thread

Postby Fade2Gray » Thu 5 Oct 2017 03:26

Markenzwieback wrote:The grasping gets even more obvious when you remember that the Spanish monarchy and the first King after Franco actually pushed forward the transition to democracy very actively and defend it against an attempted military coup.

Watching him keep on about the King is making me wonder what he's on about. The King of Spain has so little power that you can't help but wonder what he's complaining about. "But he's the Head of State!" :roll:

Shrike wrote:My only issue is how the riot police.

Yeah, I think everyone can agree that sending in riot police was pointless and didn't help anything. All the government had to do was pretty much "Nice vote, you still are part of Spain..."
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and leave it at that. The people who authorized that crackdown should be be punished for their stupidity.

Doinize wrote:
Xeno426 wrote:Putin was elected. I guess Russia is more democratic than Britain?

Yes this is definetly not a strawman

That went so far over your head it isn't even funny now.
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Think you have what it takes to enlist into the military? You sure about that?

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Re: World news thread

Postby Frencho » Thu 5 Oct 2017 08:53

Sight.

Spain's democracy is one of the tamest, most permissive and decentralized within Europe. Regions have enormous rights and leeway, they're freaking autonomous regions, there's 18 of them and none has a many privileges and as spoiled as Catalunya...
They administer their schools, universities, public health, police and their prisons. Spanish State sticks to the bare minium sovereign duties: defense, justice, diplomacy.

So, what Puigdemont and the independentist mob did is completely unconstitutional.

They should know, the Spanish Constitution was written by 7 judges, 2 whom were Catalan.
And back in 1975, 90% of Catalunya voted to approve said constitution, only Andalusia voted more in favor.
So bitching about the Constitution being anti-catalan is nonsense.
There can be a referendum on Catalunya's independence, but the PM needs to tap it to the King and then it must involve all of Spain, all it's citizens should vote on it, not just some raging catalan nationalists ballot stuffing.

The referendum did not comply with basic voting regulations:
The ballot's ain't even transparent but opaque.
There are no official envelopes.
The electoral census is hosted on online servers.
There is no electoral board.
There is no counting system.
And there were no independent observers from any institution or foreign body (international guarantees).

The whole thing was such a fraudulent joke it made banana republic elections look legit.

Moreover Catalunya is the ONLY Spanish region with the PRIVILEGE to field it's very own police force, Mossos d'Escuadra.
Now law enforcement is their duty and they shit the bed big time, just like DM pointed it out beforehand.

So when the Spanish Civil Guard gets tapped by the Attorney General to raid a protester HQ to collect evidence; yet the Mossos d'Escuadra lure them into a trap, incite a riot, then siege them inside a building while the mob torches their vehicules is sedition, treason, whatever you want to label it.

Their job was to enforce the law, aka, keep the mob at bay while de Civil Guard conducted their intel gathering.

So they can straw man the ghost of Francisco Franco all they want to play on emotions with the "we were victim of fascism" card, but they are clearly the aggressors this time around.

This is like the Texas Rangers division beating up FBI Agents while they're collecting evidence, then torching their SUVs!

By the way this whole thing started just like Brexit, a shortsighted and desperate political move to get elected into Office. David Cameron promised to hold a referendum if he was elected, even if he did not want to leave the E.U.

José Luis Zapatero promised to pass a special statute for Catalunya if all the leftist catalan parties rallied behind him during the 2004 election, we give you votes, we want a new statute. Then he tried to pass said new statute in 2006 and the Constitutional Tribunal shot it down and started amending the one in place. So Catalans got pissed.
Funny how they did not bitch about wealth redistribution back when at the height of sub-primes crisis in Spain, Madrid (the Central Government) was paying all the Catalan bills from 2008 to about 2011. Until they managed to land on their feet and their economy started booming again.

Honestly I think this is just Catalan reactionaries throwing a tantrum because things haven't been going their way and their importance/influence is waning fast and this might be their last chance to pull such shenanigans.
Mariano Rajoy is a very weak PM and there's a new inexperienced King and not Juan Carlos I who had way too much historical importance.

Catalunya was the economic heart of Spain by 1870s, as it was the first region to industrialize, they were rich as hell and had a Renaissance while the rest of Spain was a backwater hellhole, especially after the USA conquered their last colonies and the revenue they generated in 1898. But then during Franco's dictatorship he industrialized the rest of Spain, especially Madrid.
Fast forward 2017 and Madrid accounts for 20% of GDP, Same as Catalunya when they used to account for double the amount...

Lastly, Catalan banks and business are tetanized, they are so pissed at this moronic ordeal, their stocks are plummeting and they know independence is terrible move.

Populists everywhere, these spoiled crybabies should take a look at the U.K and see how rosy things are lol, at least a comedian showed up during May's lame speech.

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Re: World news thread

Postby Shrike » Thu 5 Oct 2017 17:32

I've been seeing people complain about populists, however that got me thinking about Elitists candidates. They don't really seem to be all that much better considering they are mixed bag of career politician or wealthy/powerful person who sits on their ivory tower. With Macron you have a guy who seems intent on inflating his ego larger than Trump's, as well as backing some kind of draconian anti-terrorism law, and pissing off the military while calling for action against terrorists abroad. Then in America you have candidates like Hillary who at one instance say they only supported traditional marriage, and then in another instance say they have been part of the civil rights movement from the start backing the idea of gay marriage all the way.

Another thing too is that you look at echo chambers like r/neoliberal and certain forums, their seems to be this idea that Hillary was supposed to win. As if it was supposed to be guaranteed, and American's were supposed to be obligated to vote for her. No one should be forced to vote for someone they want in a democratic system, even in a republic. Doesn't sound liberal to me in the slightest. Then you also have Hillary and her supporters coming out with a new reason for why she lost and some scape goat. Like Russian hackers, Bernie running for president, third party voters voting for their candidates, etc.

Also another thing is people seem forget the world isn't a static vacuums where things remain constant. You have people deeply concerned with far right groups gaining traction in the German government. Which is concerning, however I feel this is something the current government brought on themselves since fear and ignorance go hand in hand by failing to combat tabloids, distorted news, failed to perform the basic government role of stability and security. It would appear lone wolf attacks across western Europe have been on the rise. You also have more automation, immigration, generations fading away, new generations becoming more vocal, change in culture, etc which to me sounds like a recipe for polarization. So far no one has really provided a working solution to terrorism besides authoritarian/xenophobic laws, and no one wants to stabilize failed countries like Libya and Syria. Also you have strict zoneing laws and acts which limit the growth of cities which has lead to increasing housing and rent costs. Also you have had some political leaders down playing the growth of terrorism. Which has lead to people feeling like the government isn't listening to them anymore, let alone care about them.

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Re: World news thread

Postby D-M » Thu 5 Oct 2017 19:23

So when the Spanish Civil Guard gets tapped by the Attorney General to raid a protester HQ to collect evidence; yet the Mossos d'Escuadra lure them into a trap, incite a riot, then siege them inside a building while the mob torches their vehicules is sedition, treason, whatever you want to label it.


didn't know about that, you got a source ?
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Re: World news thread

Postby Frencho » Thu 5 Oct 2017 20:56

D-M wrote:
So when the Spanish Civil Guard gets tapped by the Attorney General to raid a protester HQ to collect evidence; yet the Mossos d'Escuadra lure them into a trap, incite a riot, then siege them inside a building while the mob torches their vehicules is sedition, treason, whatever you want to label it.


didn't know about that, you got a source ?


https://elpais.com/elpais/2017/09/22/in ... 18182.html

https://elpais.com/elpais/2017/10/04/in ... 36888.html

Articles don't directly put all the blame on the Mossos d'Escuadra but I watched Euronews prime edition last night, and they reported that it was the Mossos who not only failed to stop the arson and riot, but actually encouraged the mob to wreck the Civil Guard vehicules and siege the building. In a way, it was assault by proxy...

All in all, chief of the Mossos is now facing sedition charges and looking at 15 years jail time.

Also, Dionize, as a good Frenchman I despise monarchs but you can't blame the King of Spain for doing his actual job.

Mariano Rajoy is such a weak Prime Minister he has no idea how to deal with the situation. Actually he has been running away, hiding and unloading all the responsibilities and decision making to other institutions; first he unloaded the crisis onto the Police (only way they can deal with it legally is with riot control), then to the Justice (only way they can legally deal with it is by issuing warrants for arrest or banning stuff), now someone had to take a firm political stance, and it was up to the King to do so as Head of State when the Head of the Government is pussying out, it's up to him.

Sure complain all you want about a Head of State based on primogeniture, but if Spaniards are stuck with such one, I'd rather have him be responsible and do his job rather than attending socialite events or sailing on his Yatch while there's a major crisis unfolding unlike Kaiser Willhelm II.

Actually before his Address, memes mocking the Kings silence/absence were trending a lot, Spaniards wanted him to pitch in...

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