World news thread

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Grabbed_by_the_Spets
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Re: World news thread

Postby Grabbed_by_the_Spets » Thu 13 Oct 2016 18:19

To the sounds, both the Colombian government and FARC are willing to wait it out and re-negotiate, so all is not lost!

Hopefully they'll get the crinkles ironed out and accept a newer, better peace deal!
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Re: World news thread

Postby Grabbed_by_the_Spets » Thu 13 Oct 2016 18:36

Huh, you deleted it...
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Re: World news thread

Postby Frencho » Thu 13 Oct 2016 22:05

Grabbed_by_the_Spets wrote:Huh, you deleted it...

?

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Re: World news thread

Postby LoneRifle » Fri 14 Oct 2016 00:06

Blaming the rain for a "failure of democracy" and a "minority" voting to nix the deal. Not that I'd expect any less from a communard wannabee. Same with the following lies.

Expecting people to do their own research is too much to ask it seems, especially for pedant bigots.

I keep getting called that, but I don't think you understand what the word means. Bigoted for calling it a bad deal? Bigoted for saying the process was fair and balanced but the electorate rejected it? Bigoted for saying "just because you don't get a large turnout doesn't make something undemocratic?".


The peace accords between the FARCs and the Colombian government were signed the 26th of September.
The Referendum took place the 4th of October.
The Colombian people had a week to digest a 293 pages Peace deal proposal. There was no time for campaigning for either the Yes or No to gain traction, and some voters merely heard of it.
In addition, electoral authorities had to organise the democratic exercise in record time, making it difficult to register voter IDs (cédulas) and thus reducing the number of citizens who could participate.


http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/farc-colom ... -1.3734814

The date the agreement was reached and the text of the peace proposal was issued was August 24th, NOT September 26th. The people of Columbia had a full MONTH, not a week to debate and decide. More then enough time. Also, blaming registration is ridiculous. Maybe french do it differently, but people tend to REGISTER TO VOTE if they really care about voting. It's voter apathy, which is hardly good, but not a viable excuse for you to rant about.

False, damn lies, you are dead, dead wrong. Be quiet please you're distorting this to fit your notion of lower voter turnout = lazyness under the label "first world problems". In war torn third world countries getting to vote is often an Odyssey.


You can't even get your dates right, much less the history of a country you supposedly lived in. Columbia has had it's problems as a Democracy, but it has FOUGHT to maintain it's democratic institutions and has had relatively stable elections for over 40 years. For a "3rd World Country" that has been plagued by god only knows how many drug warlords and marxist guerillas causing havoc in the democratic process, I'd say they deserve a blue ribbon for not falling to pieces like most other South American countries. This is a country that had a PEACEFUL reformation of it's government and constitution in 1989 (Old Democracy to New Democracy). This is the same country where after having 3!!! presidential candidates assassinated in 1991 by drug lords managed to still elect a liberal candidate. The same country that voted down it's most popular president in history's proposal to allow him to run for a 3rd term.

Clearly you missed the part where they actually WERE voting for the past 40 years though.

As Killer said,
It's corrupt, yeah, but apparently it's not too corrupt for folks to vote in a way that allows them to ruin the government's plans.

The referendum result was a shocking display by the "Selfish individual" (AKA the majority of the people that voted) to vote against the governments proposal. Truly a failure of democracy. To a marxist at least. Letting his drug running, murdering, kidnapping buttbuddies off the hook for their crimes? Seems the people voted against it. Pity. Maybe you can get some of your Russian pals to come complain about "rigged" elections and demand a recount.

So, a referendum where the No "won" by a minuscule 0.5% with an horrendous low voter turnout for the reasons I just explained is a democratic success? :roll:
Point is if we just take the weather conditions out of the equation in an alternate sunny week scenario, the "Yes" would have won, as rurals where the most adversely affected by it.

Conclusion: Don't rush referendums and don't put peace deals to the mercy of either ignorant or bigoted voters. Case in point, Brexit, GOP/Trump and now this, pure troll "democracy" at work.


Idiot.

Go find me some sources that say there was widespread voter fraud and disenfranchisement. Not some BS "No one was registered" or "It rained and no one went!" Otherwise it was a fair and free referendum by ANY western standards. And in case you forgot democracy 101 Frenchy, the rules of the referendum are quite clear, the winning opinion IS to be respected. No one cheated here. No one stuffed the ballot boxes. Grow up and get real.

And besides, Marxist trolls like yourself should understand that "ignorant" and "bigoted" voters (AKA people who thought it was a bad deal and the government could and should do better) are entitled to vote in democratic societies just as much as the people who voted for peace. Santos put the proposal to the ballot for a reason. He wanted to legitimize the deal with a democratic vote. But it failed. To simply shove a deal like that through the legislature would be undemocratic after letting the public vote on it.
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Re: World news thread

Postby Frencho » Fri 14 Oct 2016 01:06

Lone, I'm not a marxist, I'm not even that left-wing. But well, seeing your background a Centrist dude is probably a Marxist with Guerrilla friends to you.

1. Stop labelling apolitical and ideologically vacuous Drug lords as Marxist. Colombia was a clusterfuck of violence and they came in all shape, colours, sizes and political leanings. Scapegoating at its finest I tell you.

2. The accords were signed the 26th of September, that's when the document was officially finalised and published to the public.
That's the deal on what the people would be voting on, 24th of August was an announcement. Yet you think either side can campaign effectively on an outdated and unfinished 292ish pages document the media and no one on social networks bothered to read...

"What question will Colombians vote on?

Voters will be asked, in clear language, whether they approve of the text of the final peace accord between the Colombian government and FARC. This means that the accord must be finalized and well publicized, if not yet formally signed, when the vote happens."

Source in English.

3. I never said there was electoral fraud or violence during the referendum. I said there was voter apathy, influenced by past experiences of electoral fraud and electoral violence. Total straw-man.

4. The highest abstention rate for Colombia is the 1994 Presidential Election between Pastrana and Samper, 66% abstention.
Of all countries in Latin America, Colombia is where abstention is most pronounced, according to a 2013 study (in Spanish) commissioned by the Colombia's National Registry tasked to Sergio Arboleda University (Bogotá). So Colombians as a whole don't have much faith in democratic institutions if they have the highest historical abstentionism in all of Latin America. Colombians have not been enthusiastically voting in the last 40 Years Lone, abstention averages at 50% since 1978.

5. The plebiscite’s result is binding on the President only, for this particular accord only. If the Colombian people vote “No,” then the President cannot implement this accord. The President could seek to negotiate a different accord with the guerrillas, or the Congress (not the President) could seek to enact this accord.

The Court explains, “A potential disapproval of the Final Accord only has an effect on the implementation of this specific public policy decision, leaving untouched the other state organs’ competencies, among them the President’s ability to maintain public order, including through negotiations with illegal armed groups, with the intention of reaching other peace accords.”

An analysis in Colombia’s El Espectador newspaper adds, “The Congress, for example, could act to ensure that the accord doesn’t die. There is also the possibility that, through a legislative act, the Congress could restore the President’s ability to do it,” thus overturning the plebiscite.

Source in English.

That's the safeguard Santos used, the Nation's stability and maintaining public order, watch the previous video, Santos clearly states this safeguard.

Lastly moderate your language, insults and name calling. You're bound to be banned again as your entire rant is gratuitous ad-hominem McCarthyism..

My sources are better than yours, anyways. Or did you learn to read Spanish in a few days?

Spoiler : :
And Trump winning the GOP primaries and Brexit winning is troll democracy, voters used their votes to troll and spite the Elites and the establishment/system


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Re: World news thread

Postby Frencho » Fri 14 Oct 2016 02:06



This belongs in the Brexit thread :lol: !

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Re: World news thread

Postby LoneRifle » Fri 14 Oct 2016 03:06

Centrist my ass. I bet if we pulled that political compass graph's results for both of us, I'd be closer to the middle then you.

1. I named both the Drug Lords and the Marxists responsible for the Columbian problems separately. Pablo Escobar not having much to do with FARC for instance. However, FARC is definitely a drug trafficking organization as well as a terrorist group by any western definition. So I'm going to keep calling that out as one of their MANY many crimes.

2. The people knew the important parts of the deal. IE, General Amnesty, political representation, funds for former rebels to restart lives. The final document is the final document, but it isn't like everyone already knew the main points in August that would become the focus of the debate.

3. You complained incessantly about the results of the referendum and started calling everyone that voted "No" Bigoted and selfish. It's one thing to expect it to be a close result because of the explosive nature of the question at hand. It's another thing entirely to lash out at people who probably have a genuine hatred of these people for killing people they love or knew. Also, quit shitting on the people that actually voted. Your complaining about voter apathy and turnout, but apparently don't like it when the people that do turn out don't vote the way you want them to.

Also, you did claim that because of (Insert complaint here), the referendum was fundamentally undemocratic since voter turnout was not high. Problem is, that's not how it works. They even factored in that X number of people had to show up to vote to legitimize the referendum, and it hit that benchmark.

4. American voter turnout has been in the 50-60% range for decades, and I don't think Americans are losing faith in our democratic process. And seriously, you are claiming Columbians have lost faith in their electoral power, well your forgetting that said electorate just proved "yes your vote still does matter."

5. If your going to quote something, finish the point and don't cut off the end.

Those scenarios are unlikely in real life. A ballot-box rejection could be a fatal blow to the government-FARC negotiation. The accord—and perhaps the very idea of negotiating—would lose legitimacy, after more than four years of negotiations. President Santos could insist on carrying the implementation process forward, but against a showing of popular disapproval, the probability that local governments—or the next president—would implement the accords is small.


Good luck pushing that through when it's been rejected.

Calling me "Gringo" and "Bigot just cuz" and asking me to "moderate". Yup. And last time I checked, this all got started because you made an acinine statement.

But a butt-hurt Uribe just sabotaged the peace deals trough Trump/brexit like rethoric during the referendum process.

Uribe's dad was assassinated by the FARCs. He would rather see Colombia burn than negotiate with them. Selfish Bigot.

Problem is that mostly Urban demographics, unaffected by the conflict voted against peace, and the rural demographics could not vote as massively as the better-off urbans due to a plethora of reasons, I mean 60% abstention is massive.

Well at least Santos said, fuck that referendum, stability of the Nation comes first so I will keep the peace process alive and kicking, 0.5% far-right trolls won't ruin it :lol:


It was a stupid and ignorant statement. Putting all the blame on "far-right trolls" and completely ignoring that people are entitled to vote to want to bring justice to the people that murdered their family, and not hand them a get out of jail card. And yet it's "McCarthyism" (Another favorite trigger word), when someone calls it out.

We are reading from the same sources Frencho. That should tell you all you need to know about Spanish language proficiency.
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Re: World news thread

Postby Grabbed_by_the_Spets » Fri 14 Oct 2016 03:54

Frencho wrote:?


Frosty posted a UN resolution about Temple Mount in Israel, looks like they lost it's Jewish heritage or something along the line.

I wrote a reply to it but the post disappeared before I type it out.
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Re: World news thread

Postby Fade2Gray » Fri 14 Oct 2016 12:59

LoneRifle wrote:Centrist my ass. I bet if we pulled that political compass graph's results for both of us, I'd be closer to the middle then you.


Once upon a time I pointed out I was a left leaning centrist by the political compass, with a nod to both authoritarian and libertarian sides of things, and Lone went off about how "that's just some mumbo-jumbo way of hiding your real loyalties" or whatever. :roll:

How ironic considering who his political party's presidential nominee is. Thank goodness Lone finally learned about the political compass, years later.

Also, I'd dare say a month to a month and a halfish is not long enough for such a big political event, nor would I blow off the after effects of a hurricane so lightly.

That being said, for something like a war coming to an end, you'd think people would know about this well as it happens, and you wouldn't need to advertise or whatever so much about it.
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