TO&E / OOB 1980s

Lord Helmchen
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TO&E / OOB 1980s

Postby Lord Helmchen » Sat 28 Oct 2017 14:44

While doing some research for realistic decks in WG I found some interesting websites and documents on the internet. Just wanted to share them with anyone interested in the TO&E and OOB of NATO and WarPac during the 1980s.

Pretty precise OOB/TO&E for NATO only(including Finland and Sweden)

Similar WarPac variant

Mixed NATO / WarPac OOB/TO&E

Have fun.
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Fade2Gray
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Re: TO&E / OOB 1980s

Postby Fade2Gray » Sat 28 Oct 2017 17:54


Damn, I even found my first unit (4/3 ADA) in this. Odd, I wonder if they actually were stationed in Wuerzburg instead of Kitzingen at one point? Could have sworn that it was always at Larson Barracks though from what I've heard from some of the older soldiers.

Would have been interesting to know what serving on a Vulc or Chap was like...

great find btw.
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Lord Helmchen
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Re: TO&E / OOB 1980s

Postby Lord Helmchen » Sun 29 Oct 2017 02:32

Fade2Gray wrote:

Damn, I even found my first unit (4/3 ADA) in this. Odd, I wonder if they actually were stationed in Wuerzburg instead of Kitzingen at one point? Could have sworn that it was always at Larson Barracks though from what I've heard from some of the older soldiers.

Would have been interesting to know what serving on a Vulc or Chap was like...

great find btw.

Well, Würzburg is the next bigger city, maybe the author did a mistake or so. :)

Well, it's a very nice find indeed simply because these Decks are really Fun to Play. I'd love to have a sort of campaign online with People choosing their Divisions and Stuff but I fear wargame is quite dead. :(
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Re: TO&E / OOB 1980s

Postby Fade2Gray » Sun 29 Oct 2017 06:22

Lord Helmchen wrote:Well, Würzburg is the next bigger city, maybe the author did a mistake or so. :)

I'm trying to see if I can find anyone who served in 4/3 from before it became a BSFV unit. Might be that it was actually stationed on Leighton Barracks at one point instead of Larson, who knows?

Man I originally had planned to visit Germany this past summer just so I could visit some of the old bases I was stationed. I'm definitely going next summer, but now I'm dying to go.

Well, it's a very nice find indeed simply because these Decks are really Fun to Play. I'd love to have a sort of campaign online with People choosing their Divisions and Stuff but I fear wargame is quite dead. :(

For a future Wargame it would be a nifty game mode where all you can pick is realistic decks.
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molnibalage
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Re: TO&E / OOB 1980s

Postby molnibalage » Tue 31 Oct 2017 11:26

Lord Helmchen wrote:While doing some research for realistic decks in WG I found some interesting websites and documents on the internet. Just wanted to share them with anyone interested in the TO&E and OOB of NATO and WarPac during the 1980s.

Pretty precise OOB/TO&E for NATO only(including Finland and Sweden)

Similar WarPac variant

Mixed NATO / WarPac OOB/TO&E

Have fun.

The PACT OOB is totally wrong. I just checked Hungary and are totally inaccurate values are locations. The doc is not bad, it is plain bad. Are such unit types which are never stationed in HUN or such qty. which also were not true in '80s. Simply forget them, they are close to useless.

Some examples:

  • SA-15 is post Cold War (9K331 Tor-M1 did not apperared in anywhere before collapse of USSR...)
  • Was not Hungarian SA-4 (2K11 Krug) at Budapest, HUN had only a Krug regiment (instead brigade, regiment was 2/3 of a brigade) and it was in Keszthely.
  • T-80 in HUN? Never stationed any T-80 in HUN.
  • ZSU-57-2 long time ago was phased out, was not used in '80s


UVA air forces
  • Never was any Su-25 in Hungary...
  • From 1986 only MiG-29 Soviet Fighters were in HUN. No MiG-23.
  • Qtys are also bad..

etc, etc...

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Re: TO&E / OOB 1980s

Postby captaincarnage » Tue 31 Oct 2017 13:07

Fade2Gray wrote:For a future Wargame it would be a nifty game mode where all you can pick is realistic decks.

Steel Division has realistic ish decks, I'd say that is one of the things i don't particularly like about the game as there is much less variation in deck design possibilities.
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Re: TO&E / OOB 1980s

Postby Lord Helmchen » Tue 31 Oct 2017 15:14

molnibalage wrote:
Lord Helmchen wrote:While doing some research for realistic decks in WG I found some interesting websites and documents on the internet. Just wanted to share them with anyone interested in the TO&E and OOB of NATO and WarPac during the 1980s.

Pretty precise OOB/TO&E for NATO only(including Finland and Sweden)

Similar WarPac variant

Mixed NATO / WarPac OOB/TO&E

Have fun.

The PACT OOB is totally wrong. I just checked Hungary and are totally inaccurate values are locations. The doc is not bad, it is plain bad. Are such unit types which are never stationed in HUN or such qty. which also were not true in '80s. Simply forget them, they are close to useless.

Some examples:

  • SA-15 is post Cold War (9K331 Tor-M1 did not apperared in anywhere before collapse of USSR...)
  • Was not Hungarian SA-4 (2K11 Krug) at Budapest, HUN had only a Krug regiment (instead brigade, regiment was 2/3 of a brigade) and it was in Keszthely.
  • T-80 in HUN? Never stationed any T-80 in HUN.
  • ZSU-57-2 long time ago was phased out, was not used in '80s


UVA air forces
  • Never was any Su-25 in Hungary...
  • From 1986 only MiG-29 Soviet Fighters were in HUN. No MiG-23.
  • Qtys are also bad..

etc, etc...

I figured the same out for the GDR, I think these units(9K22, 9K330 etc.) are either Soviet ones that supported the local divisions or the Pact OOB is not quite good compared to the NATO one.
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molnibalage
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Re: TO&E / OOB 1980s

Postby molnibalage » Wed 1 Nov 2017 20:14

Lord Helmchen wrote:
molnibalage wrote:
Lord Helmchen wrote:While doing some research for realistic decks in WG I found some interesting websites and documents on the internet. Just wanted to share them with anyone interested in the TO&E and OOB of NATO and WarPac during the 1980s.

Pretty precise OOB/TO&E for NATO only(including Finland and Sweden)

Similar WarPac variant

Mixed NATO / WarPac OOB/TO&E

Have fun.

The PACT OOB is totally wrong. I just checked Hungary and are totally inaccurate values are locations. The doc is not bad, it is plain bad. Are such unit types which are never stationed in HUN or such qty. which also were not true in '80s. Simply forget them, they are close to useless.

Some examples:

  • SA-15 is post Cold War (9K331 Tor-M1 did not apperared in anywhere before collapse of USSR...)
  • Was not Hungarian SA-4 (2K11 Krug) at Budapest, HUN had only a Krug regiment (instead brigade, regiment was 2/3 of a brigade) and it was in Keszthely.
  • T-80 in HUN? Never stationed any T-80 in HUN.
  • ZSU-57-2 long time ago was phased out, was not used in '80s


UVA air forces
  • Never was any Su-25 in Hungary...
  • From 1986 only MiG-29 Soviet Fighters were in HUN. No MiG-23.
  • Qtys are also bad..

etc, etc...

I figured the same out for the GDR, I think these units(9K22, 9K330 etc.) are either Soviet ones that supported the local divisions or the Pact OOB is not quite good compared to the NATO one.

Use this for HUN. It contains NATO part too, and mostly stands the cross check with 1989 NATO OOB.
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/d9by7q ... ir_defense

In WPACT countries battalion --> regiment --> division system was common but from 1987 Hungary switched to brigade system which was different from USSR's system what youcan see in FM 100-2-3. ("three system" to "four system". )

Hpasp made the SAMsimulator and many other good stuff.
https://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

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