[POLL] Modding Tools or No Modding Tools?

Do you want mod tools?

Yes
75
88%
No
10
12%
 
Total votes: 85
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Fri13
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Re: [POLL] Modding Tools or No Modding Tools?

Postby Fri13 » Tue 26 Jun 2012 11:26

BogdanM wrote:Although I do agree with the most part of your post, could you give me a case where mods ruined the multiplayer. I've never seen such a case myself to be honest.


I can give an example: Tribes 2.

It was best multiplayer FPS game ever made, so well balanced weekly/daily for first months to give huge depth to tactics and strategies to implement by even 32 vs 32 players size. (It was same time its weakness as it demanded a lot of teamwork).

But it was same time VERY easy to mod. All what needed was to use text editor and open every weapon, pack, grenade, armor files and just change the statics.
And the bad thing was not the easiness but that everyone could then just start own server and get it listed at server list with the own mod name. And no one needed to download anything, as the changed text files were transmitted to every client (under hundred kilobytes total).

Even the map editor worked in online as long players joined to game before starting editor. And then all clients could edit the maps with server player in real time, like adding buildings, rotating them, scaling them etc.

The game died because no one anymore hosted the base (vanilla) game and Tribes 1 fans made official patch what made it to be original Tribes 1 with same functions and that was reason why the Tribes 2 fans didn't like and game died finally.

So mods can kill a game if there is no official version available or mods are too easy to get so every scriptkid can make "fun games" by boosting their favorite units.

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Re: [POLL] Modding Tools or No Modding Tools?

Postby BogdanM » Tue 26 Jun 2012 12:01

Never heard of this game before so I'll take your word on it.

The game died because no one anymore hosted the base (vanilla) game and Tribes 1 fans made official patch what made it to be original Tribes 1 with same functions and that was reason why the Tribes 2 fans didn't like and game died finally.


^I don't understand what you meant to say there... But it begs the question, were those "scriptkids" the only ones who could host a game? If there were so many players willing to play the original version, how come none of them bothered to host the unmodified version... I'd say there is more to the story than kids messing around in txt files.

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Re: [POLL] Modding Tools or No Modding Tools?

Postby Fri13 » Tue 26 Jun 2012 19:04

BogdanM wrote:Never heard of this game before so I'll take your word on it.

The game died because no one anymore hosted the base (vanilla) game and Tribes 1 fans made official patch what made it to be original Tribes 1 with same functions and that was reason why the Tribes 2 fans didn't like and game died finally.


^I don't understand what you meant to say there... But it begs the question, were those "scriptkids" the only ones who could host a game? If there were so many players willing to play the original version, how come none of them bothered to host the unmodified version... I'd say there is more to the story than kids messing around in txt files.


The game had at start only a Base (= vanilla) servers. First player losses came at start when game was crashing too often (fixed in 1-2 weeks). Then player losses started when typical FPS players didn't survive against skilled players (game had very deep learning curve because nearly infinite amount of tactics and counter-tactics) in 6-12 months.

Then mods started to come up more often, what usually were unbalancing modders favorite weapons. But it still was not a such problem because there were Base servers enough. But slowly game started to have too many silly mods (really crazy ones) and many started to like to spend time on them just team killing and playing solo.

After 18 months, game had small community and then Base servers started to drop and being replaced by "Classic" modification (very unbalanced game for an team game and was focused for solo players).

The last nail to coffin came when developers was fired or moved to other projects and the Classic mod developers (community members) got rights to release final official patch for the game, what removed the Base and tweaked it like Classic, focusing to solo playing and fast gameplay.

And final hit came when master server was shut down. But some community members went and removed the master server and hosted a own one with own player registration and now the game is freely available from tribesnext.com site, with the last community patch integrated in it (no change to get base).

Point is, game can survive much better if there is modding tools. But every mod, needs own community. And every mod needs that main game is kept alive by maintaining it and adding new content now and then (few times a year at least). And that official version is only way to play ranked games, but mods are allowed at non-ranking game.
And that every kid out there can not host own mod server so easily, even when it would be nice to get playing without pre-downloading any package and copying files to game as it allows mod communities to separate from each other better ways by limiting possibility to join some strange and silly mod game almost by accident.

Tribes 2 died by that way, the silly mods (example some mods where you could hold 2-4 weapons with 4-12 different firing modes in each of them) saturated the server list and the official very well balanced just got lost under amount of mods.

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Re: [POLL] Modding Tools or No Modding Tools?

Postby D-M » Tue 26 Jun 2012 21:56

NO !

I don't like people having fun ! :<
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Re: [POLL] Modding Tools or No Modding Tools?

Postby UGBEAR » Wed 27 Jun 2012 06:01

bump for modding tools... gonna grab the T-72 T-80 model somewhere else
dzimmu wrote:Noobs playing for the pact has once again defended the next unbalanced unit Pact!

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Re: [POLL] Modding Tools or No Modding Tools?

Postby solvens » Wed 27 Jun 2012 08:07

Seriously guys, why are you always complaining about those two models ? The sights of the brdm-2 malyutka-P are not represented in game, but I never saw someone complain about it, therefore I conclude it's not an important matter at all. And since I refuse any bias towards units, I don't care about the tanks either.
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Re: [POLL] Modding Tools or No Modding Tools?

Postby micz » Wed 27 Jun 2012 08:39

I think that modding tools should be released gradually. First should be map editor, then tournament editor, and last units editor. And agree that modding tools can kill a game, a specially one with such a small player base like W:EE. Imagine this community splitted into 2 good mods and vanilla version, it would be hard to find anybody to play. Unfortunately Wargame is not Starcraft 2 in this case.

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Re: [POLL] Modding Tools or No Modding Tools?

Postby ikalugin » Wed 27 Jun 2012 11:15

solvens wrote:Seriously guys, why are you always complaining about those two models ? The sights of the brdm-2 malyutka-P are not represented in game, but I never saw someone complain about it, therefore I conclude it's not an important matter at all. And since I refuse any bias towards units, I don't care about the tanks either.

Noone uses those, but when we talk about T80U, we see it in every. Single. Game.
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Re: [POLL] Modding Tools or No Modding Tools?

Postby Guggy » Thu 28 Jun 2012 04:34

ikalugin wrote:
solvens wrote:Seriously guys, why are you always complaining about those two models ? The sights of the brdm-2 malyutka-P are not represented in game, but I never saw someone complain about it, therefore I conclude it's not an important matter at all. And since I refuse any bias towards units, I don't care about the tanks either.

Noone uses those, but when we talk about T80U, we see it in every. Single. Game.


Coincidentally, the ratio of UGBEAR posting about T80 models is roughly equal to their presence in most random matches in WEE.

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Re: [POLL] Modding Tools or No Modding Tools?

Postby UGBEAR » Thu 28 Jun 2012 05:03

Guggy wrote:
ikalugin wrote:
solvens wrote:Seriously guys, why are you always complaining about those two models ? The sights of the brdm-2 malyutka-P are not represented in game, but I never saw someone complain about it, therefore I conclude it's not an important matter at all. And since I refuse any bias towards units, I don't care about the tanks either.

Noone uses those, but when we talk about T80U, we see it in every. Single. Game.


Coincidentally, the ratio of UGBEAR posting about T80 models is roughly equal to their presence in most random matches in WEE.


That doesn't means they don't fail on the model of T series tanks~
dzimmu wrote:Noobs playing for the pact has once again defended the next unbalanced unit Pact!

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