NATO - Leopard vs Abrams

Kamfrenchie
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Re: NATO - Leopard vs Abrams

Postby Kamfrenchie » Sun 26 Feb 2012 13:33

Izo, just click a bit behin your tanks, and use shift to queue multiple reverse ordrs so your tank desn't present its back.

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Had heavy tanks been buffed there would not have been a need for a vts1 nerf.

so long as there's no AA ,your Havocs/Apaches should be ruling the skies unless you're absolute rubbish with them.

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MadGelo
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Re: NATO - Leopard vs Abrams

Postby MadGelo » Sun 26 Feb 2012 13:36

Kamfrenchie wrote:Izo, just click a bit behin your tanks, and use shift to queue multiple reverse ordrs so your tank desn't present its back.

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nobody is joking

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Re: NATO - Leopard vs Abrams

Postby Malik » Sun 26 Feb 2012 23:52

Tigga wrote:
Malik wrote:Expensive tanks are pretty poor in this game.

1) Take ATGM hits to the front armour. Several ATGM hits. Unless there's a really nasty ambush or they get a lucky critical you've got plenty of time to back out.
2) Counter huge amounts more points in lighter tanks, so long as they either have a place to reverse to, or the lighter tanks cannot advance for some other reason.
3) Take arty shells with minimal damage.
4) Kill stuff. Lots of stuff.


Yes heavy tanks can take a load of hits, but cost for cost, 1 Abrams = 5 ATGM jeeps/infantry. So you support with arty, great, I should be spread out where you will not able to address all of them in time. Backing out is of course the correct move, but then I just blunted your attack with less costly units, and if I do get lucky, I just made a a nice amount of points.

Reversing is also the correct move when facing a swarm like that, but again why would I chase you with my ATGM tanks? My range is longer than yours, you keep reversing and I'll just sit there and fire.

Yes they can take a beating from arty, but I have no problem Routing/Stunning/Panicking these tanks with a Buratino. That is really all you need to be able to close with APCs or pick them off with ATGM jeeps.

Obviously these units can kill lots of things, but is it worth the cost?

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Re: NATO - Leopard vs Abrams

Postby bentguru » Mon 27 Feb 2012 02:05

obviously it depends on the situation. Sending them in unsupported is a good way to give your opponent lots of points, but add in a light vehicle screen to 1) draw fire and 2) close in and engage any light armor ATGM or infantry ATGM and your heavy tanks will be able to punch very hard.

The thing that makes higher tier heavy tanks unique I think is that they're the only unit in the game with no "soft counter". Realistically the only thing that can stop them is another heavy tank, or multiple ATGM units. Compare that to helo's, light armor, lighter tanks, infantry, support units... all of which can (and will) die under most kinds of fire, be it their dedicated counter (like SAMs for Helos) or just regular guns (autocannons vs helos, infantry rifles vs helos, p. much anything really).

Put a heavy tank against any combo of units that doesn't involve ATGMs though and it will shrug off all the fire and systematically destroy everything around it.

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Re: NATO - Leopard vs Abrams

Postby Froggy » Mon 27 Feb 2012 11:30

MadGelo wrote:
Izo Azlion wrote:How *do* you reverse? :P

iv heard that french tanks are very good at it


In fact, AMX30 serie can drive at the same speed in reverse than in forward, for hit and run tactics.
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Re: NATO - Leopard vs Abrams

Postby Boogie Van » Mon 27 Feb 2012 22:13

Froggy wrote:
MadGelo wrote:
Izo Azlion wrote:How *do* you reverse? :P

iv heard that french tanks are very good at it


In fact, AMX30 serie can drive at the same speed in reverse than in forward, for hit and run tactics.


So that has absolutely nothing to do with retreats...?

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Re: NATO - Leopard vs Abrams

Postby bentguru » Mon 27 Feb 2012 22:29

I believe they call it "advancing to the rear"

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Gronank
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Re: NATO - Leopard vs Abrams

Postby Gronank » Wed 29 Feb 2012 18:27

I used to use Abrams and m113s but the fuel needs were as crippling as an arrow to the knee.
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Re: NATO - Leopard vs Abrams

Postby Froggy » Wed 29 Feb 2012 19:18

bentguru wrote:I believe they call it "advancing to the rear"


Maybe you should read some tactics manuals and learn about tanks tactics (recon by fire, block, delaying action, combat of attrition) when a weakened force exchanges time and casualty against terrain.

Extrat from FM101-5-1:
delaying operation (JP 1-02, NATO) — An operation in which a force under pressure trades space for time by slowing down the enemy's momentum and inflicting maximum damage on the enemy without, in principle, becoming decisively engaged.
(Army) — Usually conducted when the commander needs time to concentrate, preserve, or withdraw forces; to establish defenses in greater depth; to economize in an area; to cover a defending or withdrawing unit; to protect a friendly unit's flank; or to complete offensive actions elsewhere. In the delay, the destruction of the enemy force is secondary to slowing his advance to gain time. See FMs 17-95, 71-100, 100-5, and 100-15.

Being an ex tank platoon leader, I had some knowleadge on how to conduct such "controled" move to the rear.
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ikalugin
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Re: NATO - Leopard vs Abrams

Postby ikalugin » Wed 29 Feb 2012 19:44

Can you please specify time period? I am interested as in cold war era, how many prepared positions and to what depth would a unit have :)
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