Catch me up please?

Elukka
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Re: Catch me up please?

Postby Elukka » Tue 4 Dec 2012 15:05

The ability to survive an ATGM hit is pretty useful. Some NATO heavies will survive one even to the sides. I'll rather have a T-80BV damaged than a T-64A destroyed any day. Heavies will also effectively negate any lesser tanks in the area which you tend to see a lot of since many people have decided heavies aren't worth it. Obviously you're not going to be charging them into a wall of dedicated anti-tank weaponry, though.

It's all a lot less clear cut in practice of course. We can theorycraft all day but at the end of it I still find heavies extremely useful in many situations and in a good opponent's hands they feel like a brick wall.

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Re: Catch me up please?

Postby Misfit » Tue 4 Dec 2012 15:37

Elukka wrote:The ability to survive an ATGM hit is pretty useful. Some NATO heavies will survive one even to the sides. I'll rather have a T-80BV damaged than a T-64A destroyed any day. Heavies will also effectively negate any lesser tanks in the area which you tend to see a lot of since many people have decided heavies aren't worth it. Obviously you're not going to be charging them into a wall of dedicated anti-tank weaponry, though.

It's all a lot less clear cut in practice of course. We can theorycraft all day but at the end of it I still find heavies extremely useful in many situations and in a good opponent's hands they feel like a brick wall.


T-80BV still has its uses in the current meta....for obvious reasons. :roll:
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Alicuza
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Re: Catch me up please?

Postby Alicuza » Tue 4 Dec 2012 17:18

I read somewhere the Luchs got more expensive? In any case I got rid of it and replaced it with the Mutt.

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DeuZerre
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Re: Catch me up please?

Postby DeuZerre » Tue 4 Dec 2012 17:20

They're still efficient at what they did, they just cost 5 or 10 more, making them "Not to die".

Oh, and I totally forgot two major unit changes:

Bradley Autocanons range increased.
BMP-3 HE canon range increased.
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Alicuza
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Re: Catch me up please?

Postby Alicuza » Tue 4 Dec 2012 17:24

DeuZerre wrote:They're still efficient at what they did, they just cost 5 or 10 more, making them "Not to die".


I know, but I prefer my scouts to just sit there and not reveal themselves. I can buy autocannons on the cheap with a Marder I.

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Re: Catch me up please?

Postby Major Snails » Tue 4 Dec 2012 18:53

To be honest, I never start a game without at least one heavy tank.
If micromanaged it can still bring you 2-3 times its own point cost and form the backbone of your assault or defense. Unlike before the last ATGM patch especially NATO heavies are now very hard to use vs. all armoured Pact Formation, because some 60 pts worth cheap atgm spam can get them down fast.

The are now very micro intensive and way less fun to play and completly useless (NATO) on all open spaced maps and map areas like the right side (from old NATO start) in Bridge too far or Open Range in General.

Another thing is, that the old stupid Heavy Tank Meta thing, forming a block of heavies and nobrain through enemy is now working with ATGM formations with the only exception that it is not a combat with movement anymore but very very static :P

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Re: Catch me up please?

Postby Shify » Wed 5 Dec 2012 08:47

I still enjoy playing big heavy tanks and i belive that if you use them wise and carefully they can still turn the battle on your side. You just have to play them very carefully and use them more for the defending purposes and counter-attacks than heavy rushes.

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Re: Catch me up please?

Postby Misfit » Wed 5 Dec 2012 09:18

Major Snails wrote:Another thing is, that the old stupid Heavy Tank Meta thing, forming a block of heavies and nobrain through enemy is now working with ATGM formations with the only exception that it is not a combat with movement anymore but very very static :P


I dont get where that "no skill" "no brain" recuired crap is coming from other than some stereotype thrown around to sound "cool". Almost everyone used modern MBTs (see what i did there) back in the heavy tank meta. A bad player blobbing tanks up and trying to walz over the map was always losing to players which microed their units well.
Its not different from now or when the game was released.
Only difference was the versatility of said tanks, which made them effective against most threats.
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Re: Catch me up please?

Postby von_bock » Thu 6 Dec 2012 19:35

People are complaining that they are not able to rush tanks into walls of ATGM anymore. Well guess what, that's what ATGMs are for. OTOH, artillery and especially rocket artillery is not deadly enough, while flame tanks are useless now that they only fire within LOS. So that leaves only Spetsnaz and Delta as reliable forest sweepers. Still a bad deal, as they take up a whole inf slot, are expensive and you have to get them there somehow.

So yes, the meta is in a bad way now, very static, but not why you'd think.

If anything, I'd make artillery deadlier, but lower its ROF and implement a scale of supply costs for ATGMs. I-TOWs would be prime candidates for becoming more expensive to resupply and maybe some of the gun-launched missiles too. Then I might actually consider spamming el cheapo vehicles to saturate an ATGM defense.

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Re: Catch me up please?

Postby BlackLabel » Thu 6 Dec 2012 19:52

while flame tanks are useless now that they only fire within LOS


did it ever cross your mind to use the "blindfire* with flamers now ? :|

It allways stunns me how people disrgeard that those are gameplay decisions.
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