Rof, caliber, accuracy, and HE in infantry

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Bropenhauer
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Re: Rof, caliber, accuracy, and HE in infantry

Postby Bropenhauer » Mon 4 Mar 2013 17:16

I am curious if 7,62 mm ammunition is more efficient than the 5,56 mm at destroying unarmoured vehicles such as helicopters, cars, trucks and so on. Considering that the 7,62 is larger and has far greater velocity than the 5,56 this should also be reflected ingame, in it's ability to destroy unarmoured vehicles.

It is strange that Jägers with their lower rate of fire cause more morale loss than Chasseur FAMAS with the highest rate of fire in the game. The fact that the FAMAS uses 5,56 and the G3 uses 7,62 ammunition should have no relevance to morale effect in a fire fight between infantry. A units morale in a fire fight should be determined by the amount of suppressive fire it is receiving. The infantry unit capable of maintaining the highest rate of fire should dominate in terms of morale.

I think a nice balance would be something like the following:
Units using 7,62 mm ammunition should be able to carry less ammunition (I think this is already ingame though), reflecting the fact that 7,62 is heavier and larger than 5,56 ammunition, furthermore they should have +1 to the HE, reflecting the fact that 7,62 ammunition has greater size and velocity than 5,56, finally they should have -1 to accuracy in order to reflect the far greater recoil of 7,62 rifles compared to 5,56 rifles.
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Re: Rof, caliber, accuracy, and HE in infantry

Postby urielventis » Mon 4 Mar 2013 17:23

Recoil and accuracy are not linked when firing semi auto (ie L1A1 use by british troops).
These one should have better accuracy but worse rof. Don't know the infantry firing doctrine of german army at this time.
I agree that automatic fire with 7.62*51 cartridge in an assault rifle is a good way toward some pain.

For ammo load capacity, it would be interesting to see real life theory ammo load of troops at this time.
Then balance them taking this in account.
As a french reservist, with squad equipped like chasseur FAMAS (FAMAS+LRAC+grenade+ theory FRF2 and ANF2), I carry 6 magasine of 25 cartridge each, plus 300 in my bag, IE 450 shoot.

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Re: Rof, caliber, accuracy, and HE in infantry

Postby nWODT_Niack » Mon 4 Mar 2013 17:50

Bropenhauer wrote:I am curious if 7,62 mm ammunition is more efficient than the 5,56 mm at destroying unarmoured vehicles such as helicopters, cars, trucks and so on. Considering that the 7,62 is larger and has far greater velocity than the 5,56 this should also be reflected ingame, in it's ability to destroy unarmoured vehicles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_the_AK-47_and_M16#Ammunition
Speed is actually greater on the 5.56 bullet. But in the end, the difference isn't that big.
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Re: Rof, caliber, accuracy, and HE in infantry

Postby trotskygrad » Mon 4 Mar 2013 18:35

nWODT_Niack wrote:
Bropenhauer wrote:I am curious if 7,62 mm ammunition is more efficient than the 5,56 mm at destroying unarmoured vehicles such as helicopters, cars, trucks and so on. Considering that the 7,62 is larger and has far greater velocity than the 5,56 this should also be reflected ingame, in it's ability to destroy unarmoured vehicles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_the_AK-47_and_M16#Ammunition
Speed is actually greater on the 5.56 bullet. But in the end, the difference isn't that big.


he's talking about 7.62x51 NATO
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Re: Rof, caliber, accuracy, and HE in infantry

Postby 2wheels » Mon 4 Mar 2013 19:42

Bropenhauer wrote:I am curious if 7,62 mm ammunition is more efficient than the 5,56 mm at destroying unarmoured vehicles such as helicopters, cars, trucks and so on. Considering that the 7,62 is larger and has far greater velocity than the 5,56 this should also be reflected ingame, in it's ability to destroy unarmoured vehicles.


7.62 NATO definitely has an easier time punching through stuff, and a better chance of damaging something like an engine. Especially if you've got AP ammo.

The question is how much better, and that's not something I can answer accurately.

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Re: Rof, caliber, accuracy, and HE in infantry

Postby chema1994 » Mon 4 Mar 2013 20:19

Rule of the thumb:
HE>caliber>accuracy (also take into account the vet level)

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Re: Rof, caliber, accuracy, and HE in infantry

Postby quigglebert » Mon 4 Mar 2013 20:32

2wheels wrote:
Bropenhauer wrote:I am curious if 7,62 mm ammunition is more efficient than the 5,56 mm at destroying unarmoured vehicles such as helicopters, cars, trucks and so on. Considering that the 7,62 is larger and has far greater velocity than the 5,56 this should also be reflected ingame, in it's ability to destroy unarmoured vehicles.


7.62 NATO definitely has an easier time punching through stuff, and a better chance of damaging something like an engine. Especially if you've got AP ammo.

The question is how much better, and that's not something I can answer accurately.


7.62 has higher innertia, it take more to stop the slug, but actually, as far as penetration goes I dont think theres too much difference within the standard issue rifles as 5.56 retains a higher velocity and the equations go Force=MassAccelertion(2)
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Re: Rof, caliber, accuracy, and HE in infantry

Postby trotskygrad » Mon 4 Mar 2013 21:34

quigglebert wrote:
2wheels wrote:
Bropenhauer wrote:I am curious if 7,62 mm ammunition is more efficient than the 5,56 mm at destroying unarmoured vehicles such as helicopters, cars, trucks and so on. Considering that the 7,62 is larger and has far greater velocity than the 5,56 this should also be reflected ingame, in it's ability to destroy unarmoured vehicles.


7.62 NATO definitely has an easier time punching through stuff, and a better chance of damaging something like an engine. Especially if you've got AP ammo.

The question is how much better, and that's not something I can answer accurately.


7.62 has higher innertia, it take more to stop the slug, but actually, as far as penetration goes I dont think theres too much difference within the standard issue rifles as 5.56 retains a higher velocity and the equations go Force=MassAccelertion(2)


7.62 has more powder behind it, I guess it'll make a bigger explosion, hence more acceleration? not sure tho.
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Re: Rof, caliber, accuracy, and HE in infantry

Postby 2wheels » Mon 4 Mar 2013 22:12

quigglebert wrote:
2wheels wrote:
Bropenhauer wrote:I am curious if 7,62 mm ammunition is more efficient than the 5,56 mm at destroying unarmoured vehicles such as helicopters, cars, trucks and so on. Considering that the 7,62 is larger and has far greater velocity than the 5,56 this should also be reflected ingame, in it's ability to destroy unarmoured vehicles.


7.62 NATO definitely has an easier time punching through stuff, and a better chance of damaging something like an engine. Especially if you've got AP ammo.

The question is how much better, and that's not something I can answer accurately.


7.62 has higher innertia, it take more to stop the slug, but actually, as far as penetration goes I dont think theres too much difference within the standard issue rifles as 5.56 retains a higher velocity and the equations go Force=MassAccelertion(2)


I don't know 'bout all that fancy math :D

But even when you crunch the numbers, 7.62 NATO wins. More energy at the muzzle, and more energy downrange.

I've seen the results in real life, 7.62 NATO has an easier time punching through steel plates that shrug off 5.56 rounds.

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Re: Rof, caliber, accuracy, and HE in infantry

Postby quigglebert » Mon 4 Mar 2013 22:17

Is that from MMG's and LMG's I was going more along the lines of AR's and BR's AFAIK there's less of a difference in penetration, although yes the 7.62 does retain better properties against hard matter
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