the unit discussion thread

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chema1994
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Re: the unit discussion thread

Postby chema1994 » Sat 14 Jan 2012 15:59

And how about fixed-wing aviation will be ingame and shootable (not like in World in COnflict)

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Gronank
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Re: the unit discussion thread

Postby Gronank » Sat 14 Jan 2012 17:28

It is difficult to do fixed wing aviation in a game such as this without completly breaking immersion or gameplay.
The reason for this is that the operational area provided is inadequate to fight any sort of airwar.

A fighter of the day would operate at altitudes corresponding to half the length of the map, at speeds requiring it about the entire map to turn. It becomes impractical to use have such units.

An alternative is to only have CAS-aircraft that swoops in, shoots a bit, and then egresses in a swift manner in a WiC-like fashion. The problem there is immersion. How could both sides send CAS? It is a mission you really only can do if you got air supremacy and preferably supressed all air defences aswell. And if one side has air supremacy, the other one can't send airsupport, not even helicopters, which would make the game a bit unbalanced.

It is easier to pretend that fixed wing aircraft doesn't exist at al, waving it away with low priority, exhausted resources or some such.
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Re: the unit discussion thread

Postby ikalugin » Sat 14 Jan 2012 18:31

Gronank wrote:It is difficult to do fixed wing aviation in a game such as this without completly breaking immersion or gameplay.
The reason for this is that the operational area provided is inadequate to fight any sort of airwar.

A fighter of the day would operate at altitudes corresponding to half the length of the map, at speeds requiring it about the entire map to turn. It becomes impractical to use have such units.

An alternative is to only have CAS-aircraft that swoops in, shoots a bit, and then egresses in a swift manner in a WiC-like fashion. The problem there is immersion. How could both sides send CAS? It is a mission you really only can do if you got air supremacy and preferably supressed all air defences aswell. And if one side has air supremacy, the other one can't send airsupport, not even helicopters, which would make the game a bit unbalanced.

It is easier to pretend that fixed wing aircraft doesn't exist at al, waving it away with low priority, exhausted resources or some such.

Actually fighters of the era were mostly operating on low-medium altitudes and subsonic speeds.
Gameplay wise you will need a ta like system + forward aircontroler of some sort.

You won't just run cas but also bai missions. Hostile fighters can be tackled with Sam spam.
Hence it can be good gameplay wise and balanced.
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Re: the unit discussion thread

Postby DrRansom » Sat 14 Jan 2012 19:00

Wooo, first post...

Would a system from WiC be better for off map support? Some sort of recharging budget for off map support, such as: artillery, recon, EW attacks (reduces unit accuracy), and CAS?

To tie it into FAS and to give both sides the ability to respond, I propose the following modifications.

1) CAS and artillery have low 'base' accuracy.
2) That accuracy is degraded by the presence of SAM units for CAS and the presence of artillery units / artillery support for artillery attacks (represents counter-battery fire).
3) That accuracy is upgraded by having FAS / recon units in visual range of the target.

This allows the sides to use off map support, necessary for a proper representation of the Cold War, but also requires that the guy calling in the support actually do some work before the attacks roll in.

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Re: the unit discussion thread

Postby ikalugin » Sat 14 Jan 2012 21:25

DrRansom wrote:Wooo, first post...

Would a system from WiC be better for off map support? Some sort of recharging budget for off map support, such as: artillery, recon, EW attacks (reduces unit accuracy), and CAS?

To tie it into FAS and to give both sides the ability to respond, I propose the following modifications.

1) CAS and artillery have low 'base' accuracy.
2) That accuracy is degraded by the presence of SAM units for CAS and the presence of artillery units / artillery support for artillery attacks (represents counter-battery fire).
3) That accuracy is upgraded by having FAS / recon units in visual range of the target.

This allows the sides to use off map support, necessary for a proper representation of the Cold War, but also requires that the guy calling in the support actually do some work before the attacks roll in.

You can just make those planes shootable, like we will in MWM WiC
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chema1994
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Re: the unit discussion thread

Postby chema1994 » Sat 14 Jan 2012 21:54

Something like RUSE's air support could be balanced

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Re: the unit discussion thread

Postby ikalugin » Sat 14 Jan 2012 22:01

chema1994 wrote:Something like RUSE's air support could be balanced

In ruse air was unbalanced and op.
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Re: the unit discussion thread

Postby Hippopotamus » Sat 14 Jan 2012 22:37

I'm a bit worried about the number of units; it might actually be too much. How can you guys make sure that all units are useful? It's boring if in the final game the players just spam one or two different units and ignore the others.. :/

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Re: the unit discussion thread

Postby Romiros » Sat 14 Jan 2012 22:44

DrRansom wrote:Wooo, first post...

Would a system from WiC be better for off map support? Some sort of recharging budget for off map support, such as: artillery, recon, EW attacks (reduces unit accuracy), and CAS?

To tie it into FAS and to give both sides the ability to respond, I propose the following modifications.

1) CAS and artillery have low 'base' accuracy.
2) That accuracy is degraded by the presence of SAM units for CAS and the presence of artillery units / artillery support for artillery attacks (represents counter-battery fire).
3) That accuracy is upgraded by having FAS / recon units in visual range of the target.

This allows the sides to use off map support, necessary for a proper representation of the Cold War, but also requires that the guy calling in the support actually do some work before the attacks roll in.

WEE map is about 100 square kilometres. So, to have artillery support you must have an artillery systems with shooting range more that 100 km. But the longest artyshot today is 56 kilo. Same with recon, there was UAV in 80th but they were not capable to give real time image, you can find thread about them in off-topic.

I'm a bit worried about the number of units; it might actually be too much. How can you guys make sure that all units are useful? It's boring if in the final game the players just spam one or two different units and ignore the others.. :/

It's a little diferent from WICs Rock-paper-scissors. It's like Rock-paper-scissors-lizard-Spock when you can choose Spok from Next generation or from Original series.

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Re: the unit discussion thread

Postby Gronank » Sat 14 Jan 2012 22:54

Rock paper sissors can be quite complicated aswell
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