Level of command/span of control

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Tac Error
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Re: Level of command/span of control

Postby Tac Error » Wed 6 Jul 2011 06:22

Well both NATO and Warsaw Pact had a lot of "modern" (for its time) stuff in 1975 that WWII units would not be necessary. (Stuff like T-34s, Shermans and others) We'll see what Eugen has cooked up soon.
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Re: Level of command/span of control

Postby Selkares » Thu 7 Jul 2011 05:41

When you think about it WWII units really do seem outdated compared to "modern" cold war units.

But again 320 units seems alot so we may have some surprises...

The only thing I'm hopping - whatever Eugen decides to put in their game - is that early units (meaning available from the start) won't become useless once the last units are available.

320 units are anounced and I hope that, by the time you have them all, you will really create your decks by choosing from all the 320 units and not have units automaticaly put aside (if they are useless) and end up with an 100-150 unit pool to choose from.

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Re: Level of command/span of control

Postby Tac Error » Thu 7 Jul 2011 07:08

You can easily fill in 320 for the 1970s-1980s Cold War era.

As for early units, I remember in one wargame where I happened to have a full battalion of T-62s I had snooping around the edge of the map. There was this company of M1A1 tanks that were ripping up two companies of one of my BMP motorized rifle battalions and I wiped them out with the T-62s since I had them take firing positions on top of a hill to their flanks and blasted away at their side and rear armor. I hope in W:EE you can do the same. :)
Last edited by Tac Error on Thu 7 Jul 2011 08:23, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Level of command/span of control

Postby [DAY]Topspin2005 » Thu 7 Jul 2011 07:51

Selkares wrote:The only thing I'm hopping - whatever Eugen decides to put in their game - is that early units (meaning available from the start) won't become useless once the last units are available.


I hope so too ... but i am not sure how you can balance something like this. The upgraded units have to be more powerful than the units before. If you make them more expencive, nobody will upgrade units. If they are to strong, nobody will build the standard-units later in the game.

I think the idea of the Total War Mode of RUSE was nice. So you play all units in a long game.

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Re: Level of command/span of control

Postby GeneralGonzo » Thu 7 Jul 2011 08:51

I´m a bit afraid of the amount of units announced. Surely, many different units seems to be nice because you have a big pool of units to chose, but most players will always take the strongest one´s anyway.

Act of War from Eugen was a good example were every (!) unit was useful - from the beginning till end of the game. Though every faction "only" had about 15 - 20 units, every unit had its purpose.

Hope they will follow this example in Wargames too.
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Re: Level of command/span of control

Postby Selkares » Thu 7 Jul 2011 09:04

[DAY]Topspin2005 wrote:
Selkares wrote:The only thing I'm hopping - whatever Eugen decides to put in their game - is that early units (meaning available from the start) won't become useless once the last units are available.


I hope so too ... but i am not sure how you can balance something like this. The upgraded units have to be more powerful than the units before. If you make them more expencive, nobody will upgrade units. If they are to strong, nobody will build the standard-units later in the game.

I think the idea of the Total War Mode of RUSE was nice. So you play all units in a long game.


The units in this game seem to have a lot of caracteristics so it may not be that hard to balance.
We can easily imagine early tanks beeing fragile, with low firepower but good speed and big autonomy (big fuel tank and low fuel consumption per kilometer).
And of course a lot of stats can be changed:
  • speed
  • fuel reserve
  • fuel consumption (if this is taken into account...)?
  • firepower
  • different ammunition types
  • moral
  • firing range
  • armor strength
  • ammunition reserves
  • chance of having incidents (like breaking a wheel while trying to cross rough terrain)
  • line of site
  • price of the unit

And I may be missing quite a few.

So just by changing these, we can have a lot of different units but not necessarily imbalanced...

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Re: Level of command/span of control

Postby QShadow » Sun 10 Jul 2011 16:37

If I remeber correctly the USSR had still some IS-3s in the 70s, but even those beasts were heavily outdated at this time.

And if Eugen really plans to implement 300+ Units its damn hard to give every single unit a purpose for every stage of the game (early, mid, late game) or in our example even after unlocking the better Vehicles. But I doubt that Eugen would announce such a system if they wouldnt have a idea how to balance it in a proper way.

As Eugen was speaking of "building a deck" at the start of the battle, I think that they could use a system similar to the following one:

Its before the battle, you have to decide which units you will be able to call after the battle starts.
Dont misunderstand me, what I mean isnt that you order troops to the battlefield but decide which units you are able to call in after the battle begins.

You have 100 points to spent and you have the maximum lvl (meaning you have all vehicles unlocked)
You can now take some heavy tanks into your deck for lets say 30 Points.
You also decide to take some arty with you for 40 points.
And of course you will need some recon so you spent another 30 points for them.

You now have NO AA or an airunit.

Lets say you take some light tanks instead of the heavys which only cost 5 points.
Now you can get some AA and/or some airunits.

You understand what I mean huh?
This is just an example and the real system would be much more complex.
Of course this is just a guess, but in this or a similar way it "COULD" work.
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Re: Level of command/span of control

Postby Selkares » Mon 11 Jul 2011 05:59

This is more or less how it will work.

You will have points to spend to recruit units and build your deck.

One third at least of your points will have to be spent before the game. The rest can be spent afterwards to call reinforcements in-game.
And of course further points can be earned in-game (by completing objectives like controling a sector) in order to hire extra reinforcements.

QShadow wrote:Its before the battle, you have to decide which units you will be able to call after the battle starts.
Dont misunderstand me, what I mean isnt that you order troops to the battlefield but decide which units you are able to call in after the battle begins.

I'm not sure about this point but I think all units will be able to call as reinforcements and not only those chosen from your deck.
We'll need precisions on this point from Eugen/Focus

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Re: Level of command/span of control

Postby QShadow » Mon 11 Jul 2011 11:20

As said, this was the 1st possible system which can into my mind.

Looks like we just have to wait for eugen to give us some info.
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Re: Level of command/span of control

Postby Arkbird12 » Sun 31 Jul 2011 09:12

Tac Error wrote:WWII units? Well, the British Army of the Rhine had some Centurions even into the 1980s...can the the AMX-13 be considered a WWII units? The T-55 was designed in 1945, and even in the 1980s they were still common among Warsaw Pact nations (the ones who could produce T-72Ms like Czechoslovakia were actually exporting them for hard cash, though they did keep a few to reequip their high-priority ground forces).

On another note, that's one *giant* T-55 on the website's splash page. :)


Well they did use the IS-7 during the 70's and 60's and were planing on making IS-10's

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