European Escalation still the best title in the series

chriscooke
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European Escalation still the best title in the series

Postby chriscooke » Fri 11 Jul 2014 15:35

I have played all three titles and find by quite a margin that European Escalation is still the best title in the series.

My reasons?

* Less hectic and easier to understand all the changing variables on the battlefield
* Airpower and naval power wipes out too many units in a single stroke
* Nicer interface both for gameplay and also deck selection
* Really well thought out in all areas such as interface and gameplay, also very well balanced between factions
* Poor tactics are punished, good tactics rewarded
* Better quality of players online eg less rushing/ more civilised chat

I hope future titles will reflect the thought and general quality to be found in EE.

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The W:AB Noob
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Re: European Escalation still the best title in the series

Postby The W:AB Noob » Sun 13 Jul 2014 07:26

You know what messed up the other games?
Napalm. :evil:
W:RD Sandbox Mod 5.4.2, the Final and Ultimate Patch Click -> Image

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OpusTheFowl
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Re: European Escalation still the best title in the series

Postby OpusTheFowl » Sun 13 Jul 2014 08:18

chriscooke wrote:I have played all three titles and find by quite a margin that European Escalation is still the best title in the series.

Totally agree...

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Phips
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Re: European Escalation still the best title in the series

Postby Phips » Sun 13 Jul 2014 10:46

I say that pretty much each time I come here xD

another good point are the maps and the graphics, color and visabillity. Look at a map from EE at max zoom out, then at one from alb or rd. you can instantly see everything, all the cover and the layout and stuff on the map. in rd the zones are painted in the air so I often had to turn the camera around to find out if cv is in the zone or not.

yea planes... they are very poorly implemented. pay 200 for su27m (and nato equivalent) and insta kill 2 180p tanks in one strafe and get out instantly without getting hit... yea well no more questions needed on why everyone's hiding so much and so little movement happening. artilllery needing no more skill as well... 12 smerch uncorrected in ee did nothing. honestly it would be way better if you'd get some second currency for killing and with that call in planes after it all started. kinda like wic did it.

I also miss how putting a unit into a deck included all of its type. so you'd see units that sucked and the whole unit tree mattered in the decision. the vetterancy was also better but needed a tweak probably.

the amount of micro at the start is obscene. having to handle your ground troops and planes and sead and helis and look around and what not... way more than in ee. ee with formation and reverse gear button would be sooo good. honestly these 2 features alone would make me pay 30$ if it was still alive.

tbh RD with before 80 only feels amazingly good. I can highly recommend to get a bunch of mates and try it out.

I really hope they make a remake of EE at some point and let it live for longer. pretty much the best strategy game out there. but sadly dead...

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Re: European Escalation still the best title in the series

Postby Soundwolf776 » Sun 13 Jul 2014 13:43

Totally agreed on visual part. WEE style is truly the best, the maps are so well-laid and clear to read that it's a pain to look at "realistic" WALB/WRD maps. And dat skyboxes and shaders. Each map has a vivid and beliveable atmospheric feeling to it.

BTW, is there an interest in a "community patch" to fix some things that were overlooked in the last patch or maybe even experimental mod for WEE?
Smallish interface tweaks are also possible - for example, to reduce the size of unit lables which look terrifingly large and unwieldy after more compact WALB-WRD ones.

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Re: European Escalation still the best title in the series

Postby schurem » Sun 13 Jul 2014 20:40

Would be nice indeed, perhaps also some speed controls a la WG:RD?

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Re: European Escalation still the best title in the series

Postby chykka » Mon 14 Jul 2014 07:29

The way I look at it
AB, and RD are both stand alone DLC to EE. Same game, but just added too.
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Re: European Escalation still the best title in the series

Postby KattiValk » Mon 14 Jul 2014 10:53

I hate to be the devil's advocate, but I personally don't like EE all that much for many reasons:
    -No reverse button (I played EE again and man, is it a pain without it).
    -I don't know about you but I think ATGMs did nothing but miss in EE unless they were high vet or a TOW or something.
    -Unlocking system (and don't tell me it's to teach new players, the campaign will never be like multiplayer, the closest I've seen AI get to real people is Very Hard AI playing Conquest).
    -To be honest, I prefer the newer textures (partially because I own EE on an inferior Macbook while ALB and RD are both on my gaming PC where I can run max graphics).
    -Arty still wasn't tweaked (the arty party was sort of fixed in RD, I think it's the best version of arty yet).
    -Piss poor unit selection (essentially Mixed everything, you know how it goes).
    -Tanks seemed to just Ctrl+Alt+Del infantry in woods so easily.
    -A mixed one here, but the AI's smaller auto cover function (it seems to have been buffed in ALB and up and can be a real pain).
    -Color scheme, frankly it's just too drab.
    -Horrible city system (honestly, I shouldn't have to fuss over micro of every infantry unit in combat).
    -Grenades.
    -Absolutely horrid armory viewing system.
    -Empty APCs and IFVs in the vehicle tab.
    -Unit death list is in the bottom left where I can't see it when busy.
    -Armor system.
    -Several others I can't think of off the top of my head.
    -The Mac version is just horrendously broken (at least for me, I got a new Macbook so that may be it).

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Re: European Escalation still the best title in the series

Postby chriscooke » Mon 14 Jul 2014 12:02

Surprised you can find so many faults in EE but of course you are entitled to your opinion.

I think its probably the best wargame strategy game made since Matix Games Close Combat 2, a superb tactical WW2 game. In answer to a few of your comments:

-No reverse button (I played EE again and man, is it a pain without it).
Tanks automatically reverse over small distances and continue to face the threat with frontal armour, Ive never had any problems with tanks turning tail myself.

-I don't know about you but I think ATGMs did nothing but miss in EE unless they were high vet or a TOW or something.
High VET AT infantry usually hit their target, and placed in buildings are formidable. Yes cheaper AT inf won't always hit the target - but as you might expect in a well balanced game, you get what you pay for.

-Unlocking system (and don't tell me it's to teach new players, the campaign will never be like multiplayer, the closest I've seen AI get to real people is Very Hard AI playing Conquest).
No single player mode in any game will be like multiplayer, and probably wont be for many many years. The single player campaign is not about learning multiplayer, its about learning game mechanics and having fun with missions, as well as learning about the deck as it unlocks.

-To be honest, I prefer the newer textures (partially because I own EE on an inferior Macbook while ALB and RD are both on my gaming PC where I can run max graphics).
I agree to some extent the textures are a little lacking and somewhat repetitive in EE. The curvatures are blocky and basically rendered. However I am pleased that they have invested the development budget in gameplay and not graphics.

-Arty still wasn't tweaked (the arty party was sort of fixed in RD, I think it's the best version of arty yet).
Arty is generally lethal if used correctly in EE, especially HE7, and massed it does tend to be the biggest game wrecker. with new players often buying 16 + guns at a time. I find the best solution is to try and impose 4 or 6 gun limit on each player.

-Piss poor unit selection (essentially Mixed everything, you know how it goes).
I'm not quite sure what you refer to, but I personally like the variety and mixed ability of units. As stated in a reply above, the ability to field both recruits and vets from the same unit type offers more depth and options.

-Tanks seemed to just Ctrl+Alt+Del infantry in woods so easily.
Tanks are almost helpless against infantry in woods, Four times out of five infantry will win in a head to head. Your best hope for tanks v infantry is getting the first shot off wit your tank - otherwise you are in trouble.

[b]--Horrible city system (honestly, I shouldn't have to fuss over micro of every infantry unit in combat).

Much prefer the micro system to the area based system found in later games. It means you can choose to either lightly or heavily populate each hamlet of buildings, using AT, INF and AA in small groups.

--Absolutely horrid armory viewing system.
The viewing system encourages the use of recon for good range of sight and this encourages the proper use of units. As you might expect in real life, tanks have limited view.

--Empty APCs and IFVs in the vehicle tab.
Good for taking shots from enemy units while your much more expensive killing units advance behind them to do their work. Also good for clearing infantry.

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Re: European Escalation still the best title in the series

Postby KattiValk » Mon 14 Jul 2014 19:19

chriscooke wrote:-No reverse button (I played EE again and man, is it a pain without it).
Tanks automatically reverse over small distances and continue to face the threat with frontal armour, Ive never had any problems with tanks turning tail myself.
If you start to move preemptively a unit won't reverse from a threat, so if your recon spots something over a hill and you want to fall back now rather than when you're getting shot at, your units will turn tail and likely receive ATGMs up the engine.

-I don't know about you but I think ATGMs did nothing but miss in EE unless they were high vet or a TOW or something.
High VET AT infantry usually hit their target, and placed in buildings are formidable. Yes cheaper AT inf won't always hit the target - but as you might expect in a well balanced game, you get what you pay for.
Yes, and I prefer having availability trade offs for higher vets and have even the most basic ATGM actually be worth something, which EE fails to do very well.

-Unlocking system (and don't tell me it's to teach new players, the campaign will never be like multiplayer, the closest I've seen AI get to real people is Very Hard AI playing Conquest).
No single player mode in any game will be like multiplayer, and probably wont be for many many years. The single player campaign is not about learning multiplayer, its about learning game mechanics and having fun with missions, as well as learning about the deck as it unlocks.
Actually spending time to design a comprehensive tutorial would be much more effective to teach new players game mechanics. Plus having a readily available spar option for the newer players to clearly see.

-To be honest, I prefer the newer textures (partially because I own EE on an inferior Macbook while ALB and RD are both on my gaming PC where I can run max graphics).
I agree to some extent the textures are a little lacking and somewhat repetitive in EE. The curvatures are blocky and basically rendered. However I am pleased that they have invested the development budget in gameplay and not graphics.
And that's nice, but it was more of a response to those who said they preferred the simplicity of EE textures.

-Arty still wasn't tweaked (the arty party was sort of fixed in RD, I think it's the best version of arty yet).
Arty is generally lethal if used correctly in EE, especially HE7, and massed it does tend to be the biggest game wrecker. with new players often buying 16 + guns at a time. I find the best solution is to try and impose 4 or 6 gun limit on each player.
Which didn't happen. Arty still wasn't balanced.

-Piss poor unit selection (essentially Mixed everything, you know how it goes).
I'm not quite sure what you refer to, but I personally like the variety and mixed ability of units. As stated in a reply above, the ability to field both recruits and vets from the same unit type offers more depth and options.
I mean there are no self sustaining nations in EE, everything is just Mixed PACT and Mixed NATO, not to mention the fact that they lack many of the units introduced in ALB.

-Tanks seemed to just Ctrl+Alt+Del infantry in woods so easily.
Tanks are almost helpless against infantry in woods, Four times out of five infantry will win in a head to head. Your best hope for tanks v infantry is getting the first shot off wit your tank - otherwise you are in trouble.
Which I find usually happens, tanks seem to get shots off quicker than infantry.

[b]--Horrible city system (honestly, I shouldn't have to fuss over micro of every infantry unit in combat).
Much prefer the micro system to the area based system found in later games. It means you can choose to either lightly or heavily populate each hamlet of buildings, using AT, INF and AA in small groups.
I never said the new system was that great either, though it seems to be a forced gameplay change with the implementation of air support which would make small concentrations prime targets. The old system had no locking power for the buildings so the micro had to be very precise. I would support having smaller city blocks in general, but the block system is so much better than EE's.

--Absolutely horrid armory viewing system.
The viewing system encourages the use of recon for good range of sight and this encourages the proper use of units. As you might expect in real life, tanks have limited view.
I was referring to the UI of the Deck creation, or armory. Recon has been and will always be an integral part of Wargame. As I was saying, the armory has terrible UI.

--Empty APCs and IFVs in the vehicle tab.
Good for taking shots from enemy units while your much more expensive killing units advance behind them to do their work. Also good for clearing infantry.
But it resulted in spam of the things and really didn't help gameplay.

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