New tanks range.

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IlSocio
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Re: New tanks range.

Postby IlSocio » Fri 13 Apr 2012 09:57

I played a few games last night on both factions with new updates, and I agree with those who are telling that now heavy tanks have a role, before they doesn't. Infact before the patch was a lot better to have many light/medium instead of them, as they could do the same work.

But they can still be destroyed from atgm, heli, or simply other heavies in open field. For medium tanks, they still have their role, personally i use them as "screener" for the heavis, using those low cost tanks to distract the enemy while from behind the heavies do the work.

And anyway, if you manage to ambush an heavy tank is exactly like before. ;)

Another good thing that changed is the reduced repair rate, at least you don't see units in god-mode like before, even if a unit fighting near a supply is still a pain in the ass (forgive language :roll: )

My two cents! :)
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Re: New tanks range.

Postby Satire » Fri 13 Apr 2012 10:06

I really like the change. A lot.
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Re: New tanks range.

Postby LapinDuracell » Fri 13 Apr 2012 12:21

Yeah, the change is nice, and it might help reduce tendancy to spam arty since there will be less soft targets on the field. Anyway ambush is still very effective, my 20 points Motostrelkis just destroyed 336 points worth of unsuspicious Abrams :D

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Re: New tanks range.

Postby Space » Fri 13 Apr 2012 13:11

Operator wrote:But I'm concerned just by one thing: ability of Konkurs ATGM to hit target with first shot is quite low and after patch, ATGMs won't have the second chance. That makes all PACT cheap ATGM carriers like UAZ and BMP-1* unreliable in their main job against heavies. Only addition of some accuracy or increasing aiming speed can help them. But let's just play :)


I agree. Milan F2 and Konkurs infantry have now been removed from my decks and replaced with other units. Alot of ATGM's need an accuracy boost to make them worthwhile now. You can get this through vet, but it's far too much to invest in a unit that can be easily defeated in so many ways.

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Re: New tanks range.

Postby Gronank » Fri 13 Apr 2012 13:41

The most realistic solution to the usefulness of ATGM infantry would be to let all non HEAT rounds from tanks deal 0 HE damage on the first shot against infantry. Sadly enough, round types aren't included in this game and frankly, the game would be a bit too micro oriented if that was the case. An alternative that would be a bit artificial but have the same effect would be to let ATGM infantry fireing not be detected until their missle hits/miss and then have a extended period where they're more detectable.

Tactics of ATGM infantry would probably devolve into fireing one missle and the running into the woods. That's realistic right? and therefore something to strive for? ATGM infantry would be quite powerful and difficult to kill but only with micro (especially considering how many of those units one can afford).

That change would make my 10pts Dragon with 1500m range idea quite a bit interesting.
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Re: New tanks range.

Postby lipt0n » Fri 13 Apr 2012 13:53

Space wrote:
Operator wrote:But I'm concerned just by one thing: ability of Konkurs ATGM to hit target with first shot is quite low and after patch, ATGMs won't have the second chance. That makes all PACT cheap ATGM carriers like UAZ and BMP-1* unreliable in their main job against heavies. Only addition of some accuracy or increasing aiming speed can help them. But let's just play :)


I agree. Milan F2 and Konkurs infantry have now been removed from my decks and replaced with other units. Alot of ATGM's need an accuracy boost to make them worthwhile now. You can get this through vet, but it's far too much to invest in a unit that can be easily defeated in so many ways.


Not accuracy but "higher" survivability is what they need. My ATGM's tend to die from one tank salvo :(

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Re: New tanks range.

Postby DeuZerre » Fri 13 Apr 2012 14:02

I still keep Konkurs in my deck. Slightly better range, and while they aren't the most accurate, you just ahve to offer the enemy a juicy target to ignore some of the flak: T-72 can take some hits, while your atgms hit (or don't but that's a whole different matter).

As NATO, some ATGMs are really good at dealing damage, so I still use them (MILAN F2). Again, juicy targets (Chieftains, anything remotely armoured...) will draw the shots.

Also remember to SPLIT your units, so if the enemy manually targets your ATGMs, he has to micro more...
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Re: New tanks range.

Postby Mazz » Fri 13 Apr 2012 14:12

MILAN F2s are actually one of the best tools NATO has atm because its a 12 AP missile. Give it a little vet and split them up (T-80s shoot HE 4) and they can tear through anything but the BV and U.
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Re: New tanks range.

Postby Tigga » Fri 13 Apr 2012 14:31

Milan F2s are still strong, as Mazz says. In high hedgerows or buildings you'll be getting the first strike and they won't kill you before your missile hits. Three Milan F2s cost you 90 points. Three Milan F2 hits on armour 10 will do 9 points of damage. Chances are if you spread them, or are firing from a slight flank, that you'll get a side armour hit which will do a whopping 8 points of damage on it's own to a higher tier T-80. Seems worth it to me.

Konkurs... less so. AP 10 is a big step down against heavies from AP 12. To be honest, pact ATGMs in general are much more for killing NATO light tanks, while NATO ATGMs are much more for killing pact heavies due to their higher AP.

An a different note one important thing to remember is that it's not just a max range buff. AP of main tank guns increases by 1 point for every 350m range you close in. This means at the former range all tanks with the buff are effectively +1 AP. I wasn't expecting this to be the case - I had thought that they'd make the "350m rule" into a "420m" rule to give the same AP at low ranges. For anybody too lazy to work it out themselves:

2275/1925 range: Default AP
1925/1575 range: AP+1
1575 /1225 range: AP+2
1225/875 range: AP+3
875/525 range: AP+4
525/350 range: AP+5

Actually, things get a bit complicated when you get down to 350m. I'm fairly sure that you get an AP bonus for the 175m between 525 and 350, but below 350 you're guarenteed to do at least one point of damage with a hit. I don't know if there are AP bonuses at 175m.

Anyway, this means that within 525m tanks with the range boost get +5 AP. That's pretty epic, and puts most T80s/NATO armour at AP 14, one hitting armour 5 or greater. Leopard 2A4s however will be able to one-hit armour 6 or greater, and T-80Us armour 7 or greater.

Worth bearing in mind that at close ranges this AP bonus favours lighter tanks, just less so than before. If a Rise Patton can use cover to get within 525m range they're effective AP 11, doing 7 points of damage to higher tier T-80s side armour for a fraction of the price. Don't discount lighter tanks... just be aware that you want to be getting them close!

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Re: New tanks range.

Postby Space » Fri 13 Apr 2012 14:47

Tigga wrote:Milan F2s are still strong, as Mazz says. In high hedgerows or buildings you'll be getting the first strike and they won't kill you before your missile hits. Three Milan F2s cost you 90 points. Three Milan F2 hits on armour 10 will do 9 points of damage. Chances are if you spread them, or are firing from a slight flank, that you'll get a side armour hit which will do a whopping 8 points of damage on it's own to a higher tier T-80. Seems worth it to me.


If you have 3 squads of Milan F2's spread in hidden locations all within range of the single T-80 that the enemy rolls in without recon or support, then yes they are powerful. And if you want to have a slightly above 50% chance of first time hits with the ATGM's (which is what you are going to need), then full vet will cost you 60 points for a total of 180.

Slots are limited so you have to make choices - I've replaced my ATGM inf with the M150 and the Shturm for their extra range.

I like the changes, but I still think that shorter range light ATGM units need an accuracy boost, because their first shot needs to hit or it is likely be their last!

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