Apache Nerf

THEDAMNRUSSIANS
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Apache Nerf

Postby THEDAMNRUSSIANS » Sat 14 Apr 2012 01:37

I understand that the apache has a much more powerful missile than the havoc and that its cannon carries more ammo but the havoc and apache are pretty much standoff snipers used to kill tanks at distance so the canons rarely get used they cost the same and yet the havoc has twice the amount of missiles for the same price and same distance which is ridiculous if anything give the apache its range back because the havoc range was buffed a little in the last patch

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diana olympos
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Re: Apache Nerf

Postby diana olympos » Sat 14 Apr 2012 01:40

Yes but you forget an important things.

The hellfire are Fire&Forget!
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Gronank
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Re: Apache Nerf

Postby Gronank » Sat 14 Apr 2012 01:46

diana olympos wrote:Yes but you forget an important things.

The hellfire are Fire&Forget!

They also need one missle to kill armour 4 vehicles. Considering helicopters almost always hits the side armour, that includes all but the most expensive warpac tanks.
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Re: Apache Nerf

Postby Tigga » Sat 14 Apr 2012 02:43

The Havoc shots are "fire and think about only a bit" though. Unlike most ATGMs you are able to fire on the move, as well as issue commands while the ATGM is in flight. If you lose LoS/die/stun/rout though it's an auto-miss, unlike Hellfires.

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Re: Apache Nerf

Postby REDDQ » Sat 14 Apr 2012 03:13

THEDAMNRUSSIANS wrote:I understand that the apache has a much more powerful missile than the havoc and that its cannon carries more ammo but the havoc and apache are pretty much standoff snipers used to kill tanks at distance so the canons rarely get used they cost the same and yet the havoc has twice the amount of missiles for the same price and same distance which is ridiculous if anything give the apache its range back because the havoc range was buffed a little in the last patch

Well... you can cut Havoc's missiles by half, no hard feelings there, but do not touch range in top-tier choppers...

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Re: Apache Nerf

Postby Kovlovsky » Sat 14 Apr 2012 04:02

Honestly, the Apache was too superior to the Havoc after the patch that lowered the cost of the first and nerfed the range of the second. After the patch, they had the same cost, but the Apache was a lot superior and was able to snipe many SAM that would have a considerable range advantage against it in real life. I think that the nerf on the Apache missile range is totally justified.
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Mitchverr
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Re: Apache Nerf

Postby Mitchverr » Sat 14 Apr 2012 04:11

Something people forget here, asymetric warfar, 1 had more ammo, the other deadlyness, its a fair compromise, and tbh i personally saw the havoc as better before the patch, reducing its range makes it less useable imo, i just stick to using TOW lynxs now, as they aint as costly when hit and can run away faster.

Sure the hellfire is fire forget bogoff, but you miss a key point of it, it needs major micromanaging to have its 8 missiles be cost effective, if you simply say "attack here" it will fire 2 missiles at each tank/target, the second usually wasted because the first hit and killed it, to me, that was a fair compromise to it being a "better missile", half given, more user intensive unless you want it to be 1/4 the missiles. Not to forget ofcourse, if you dont turn the missile off/on and click your target fast enough, it will lock onto any bugger in range and start firing away, even if your specific target is still coming into range.
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Re: Apache Nerf

Postby Nou » Sat 14 Apr 2012 06:06

diana olympos wrote:Yes but you forget an important things.

The hellfire are Fire&Forget!


No, they aren't, they are Semi-Active Laser Homing, it even says in game SALH guidance.

That means that either an observer with a laser designator, another helicopter with a laser designator (for example the D model Kiowas), or the Apache itself needs to keep the laser designator on the target the entire flight time (unless the target is stationary, in which case later model Hellfires can use inertial guidance to continue to fly to the same spot where it last saw the laser).

Only the Apache Longbow can use the Fire & Forget Hellfire L, which are millimeter-wave radar guided.

Honestly the in-game range of the Hellfire is really really REALLY small, it should be at least another 1000 or 2000 meters, the fact that they dropped the range is pretty crap. It is by far the most capable anti-tank missile system in this game.

What would maybe keep it balanced is giving the Apaches less optics range which would give them benefits of flying in hunter killer teams with Kiowa scouts.
Last edited by Nou on Sat 14 Apr 2012 06:14, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Apache Nerf

Postby Nou » Sat 14 Apr 2012 06:12

Gronank wrote:Considering helicopters almost always hits the side armour, that includes all but the most expensive warpac tanks.



This is also a piss poor simulation of the Hellfire. The missile is designed to fly one of three pop up flight plans, popping up a few hundred meters at most and then diving in on the top armor of the target with devastating effect.

In real life the Hellfire can easily defeat any modern battle tank, NATO or former Pact tanks and is incredibly accurate.

The system can even be blind fired from behind cover, popping up and gliding for many kilometers before it finds an appropriate laser to home in on.

This is the same for the Kiowa with Hellfires too, it is essentially the same exact system as the Apache, and some might argue even nicer since the Kiowa has the sensor suite with the laser mounted on the mast which allows it to view targets from cover and engage from cover.

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Re: Apache Nerf

Postby derpcannon BG » Sat 14 Apr 2012 06:33

If the apache is much better than the havoc then nerf it a bit :mrgreen: . I think it really needs a 12 damage missile and poor view range

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