Thoughts on post-patch tanks

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Thoughts on post-patch tanks

Postby p-- » Sun 15 Apr 2012 05:51

Now that The Range has been added, and the mlrs stun lessened, what are our early thoughts on the all new old tanks?

Personally, I've gone from occasionally using one 90+ pts tank to feeling almost obliged to have to take 4 maxed out leo 2s or the equivalent.

I've also found that the new maps in 1v1 ranked tend to be very open with only a few small pockets of cover, making infantry and light vehicles hard to keep alive. So with decent AA, on wide open plains, there doesn't seem to be much that survives or can threaten a heavy tank, except another heavy tank.

All that's good, and its fun to have a different unit mix, but my concern is that with so many points tied up in so few units, that a couple of (random or not) losses is totally devastating.

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Re: Thoughts on post-patch tanks

Postby the_Monk » Sun 15 Apr 2012 07:04

p-- wrote:All that's good, and its fun to have a different unit mix, but my concern is that with so many points tied up in so few units, that a couple of (random or not) losses is totally devastating.



...and the problem with that is? :?

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Re: Thoughts on post-patch tanks

Postby p-- » Sun 15 Apr 2012 07:54

the_Monk wrote:
p-- wrote:All that's good, and its fun to have a different unit mix, but my concern is that with so many points tied up in so few units, that a couple of (random or not) losses is totally devastating.



...and the problem with that is? :?


For example:

"Oh, you got a critical, I lost 10% of my forces in one shot, and now my line is a mess. gg!"

Randomness is less of a game-making/game-breaking issue when its spread out over many instances over a long period of time. If we're all putting massive points into a handful of front line units, the destabilizing effects of a small selection of random values becomes increasingly apparent.

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Re: Thoughts on post-patch tanks

Postby DeuZerre » Sun 15 Apr 2012 09:23

It all depends on how you use them. tanks with a smaller range are supposed to be used as screens for heavier tanks. The heavy ones CAN be used as spearheads, but if it's too hot, send in older stuff. Criticals can happen to your opponents too.
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Re: Thoughts on post-patch tanks

Postby p-- » Sun 15 Apr 2012 09:44

DeuZerre wrote:It all depends on how you use them. tanks with a smaller range are supposed to be used as screens for heavier tanks. The heavy ones CAN be used as spearheads, but if it's too hot, send in older stuff. Criticals can happen to your opponents too.


I get the point about screening, except its more or less donating on the wide open plains. Really this amounts to distracting your opponent for a few moments while you get in a couple extra shots, except he's doing the same thing. The sacrificed units might get something useful done, if they get a side hit while moving at max range if they don't die to The Range first.

As for the other part, I'm not whining about losing to randomness, and obviously everyone gets crits. The problem I'm concerned about is that one random 'roll', whether its crit or just hit/miss, can determine a huge part of the game whem we're talking heavy tank duels.

In contrast, one single extraordinary good/bad 'roll' can't completely change the game if its, say, 150pts of infantry fighting 150pts of infantry. Sure, crits and randomness still matter, but they are spread out over multiple occasions over time. This, in theory anyhow, allows tactical and strategic choices to matter more. :)

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Re: Thoughts on post-patch tanks

Postby Tigga » Sun 15 Apr 2012 11:09

I like it so far, though I'm tempted to say it's a little over the top with no price changes. It's not simply a range increase, but also an effective AP and accuracy boosts at previous engagement ranges. The AP is effectively +1 at all previous engagement ranges, and I'm not sure what the accuracy changes are. I had excected the system to change the "350m = +1AP" rule to "413.6m(ish) = +AP", which would mean that at mid to low ranges the longer range tanks don't really receive much bonus. Alternatively simply removing one from the AP values of these tanks would give lighter stuff a bit more of a chance. Longer range stuff would benifit from the range, but would be one AP lower than their pre-patch values when shooting at this "extra" range. I don't know yet, more time needed before suggesting anything solid, especially with the supply bug skewing things a bit.

Also, I tend to disagree a little with sending in lighter tanks first into a tank battle against heavies. The heavies will back off cutting your lighter units to bits and you'll just be throwing away points. Sure, it's fine for advancing through unknown ground, though I tend to think recon is best for leading the way, followed straight away by the heavies. Basically, the heavies can kill your light units while keeping out of range of your heavies. Or that'd be the most likely outcome with good micro. Of course every battle is different. If the enemy can't give ground then a screening force to get your big guns into range safely is a solid plan.

That doesn't make mediums useless though. Close up they can swarm a heavier tank, and on the flanks they both protect your heavy tanks from being flanked, and can attempt to flank opponent's heavy tanks. The stuff on the flank is the stuff that is most likely to itself get flanked (usually more crazy terrain, and meeting the enemy trying to do the same, and obviously your flank usually has an open flank...), so you don't really want valuable stuff there. Of course flanking with heavier stuff would be nice 'cos you crunch the enemy's side armour with more AP, but lighter stuff is less risky while at the same time being in a position to do significant damage. The enemy can't go after these with his big tanks as then they'll expose their side armour to your big tanks, however they also can't let you shoot at your weak spot. Worst case you'll force them to retreat, best case you kill a nice big chunk of points.

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Re: Thoughts on post-patch tanks

Postby JimHatama » Sun 15 Apr 2012 11:16

really every game now NATO have all 4 leo2. Every game.
its OP and its not fun.

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Re: Thoughts on post-patch tanks

Postby Oliver » Sun 15 Apr 2012 11:55

I could say the same about pacts T80s. One week ago I could also say the same about pacts Buratinos. And Leo2A4s are not OP. ATGMs from the sides do wonders against them (experienced that myself).
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Re: Thoughts on post-patch tanks

Postby Hegemon » Sun 15 Apr 2012 12:09

The best screening tank now is basic T-80.
REDDQ wrote:T-80U shoots AP rounds made of pure Communism... any more questions?

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Re: Thoughts on post-patch tanks

Postby Grabbed_by_the_Spets » Sun 15 Apr 2012 14:01

Post patch I have faced nothing but Leo2's, Challenger 2, AMX 32's, Abrams and MBT 70/KPz. Also since post patch I have had to dump my East German/Poland deck because absolutely none of the tanks in that army can penetrate even the side amour. Mid and low tier tanks are absolutely worthless now besides their spammablility, and that only serves to feed the enemy.

This with the Apache buff is pretty much gg for all Pact users who are not using T-80U's, as they are super accurate, OHK's, out-ranging, out gunning and outmaneuvering. ATGM's can only make one shot before their in range and usually don't get another shot in, every tank underneath the T64-MV are useless and almost all of the save the T-80 are actually more expensive then an Abrams and have worse stats!

Hell I don't even know why these tanks got a buff. they could hold their own pre-patch anyway...
Last edited by Grabbed_by_the_Spets on Sun 15 Apr 2012 14:38, edited 1 time in total.
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