Is the Marder 1 / Marder VTS1 spam unbeatable ?

LapinDuracell
Corporal
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu 5 Apr 2012 12:12
Contact:

Re: Is the Marder 1 / Marder VTS1 spam unbeatable ?

Postby LapinDuracell » Fri 20 Apr 2012 06:30

Well it seems my post attracted high level answers, thanks a lot !
So no easy counter of course, but :
- it's map dependent, infantry in forest, bridges and elevation can halt a FA
- if open ground, retreat early, so recon early, then counter attack where the weak spots are (there must be some), and use arty to stun/panic.
- very heavy armor can be useful (T80-U)
- Choppers can be useful if they snipe AA first, and avoid the Marder 1 autocanon short range
- Marder are OP for their price, so harass Eugen until they change it ;)

the_Monk
Sergeant Major
Posts: 289
Joined: Sun 11 Mar 2012 19:57
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: Is the Marder 1 / Marder VTS1 spam unbeatable ?

Postby the_Monk » Fri 20 Apr 2012 06:39

LapinDuracell wrote:- Marder are OP for their price, so harass Eugen until they change it ;)


As soon as that happens you're going to see people begging for an increase in the T-80U cost! ;)

Mazz
Second-Lieutenant
Posts: 751
Joined: Thu 8 Mar 2012 05:31
Contact:

Re: Is the Marder 1 / Marder VTS1 spam unbeatable ?

Postby Mazz » Fri 20 Apr 2012 13:46

The scary part of the loadout now isnt the Marders, its the fact that there are Leos behind them. You have to ingore shooting something and thats the rough part. Marders just work really well because their cost effiency and vet design.
Image

Tigga
Lieutenant Colonel
Posts: 2441
Joined: Tue 5 Jul 2011 02:46
Contact:

Re: Is the Marder 1 / Marder VTS1 spam unbeatable ?

Postby Tigga » Fri 20 Apr 2012 15:05

Mazz wrote:The scary part of the loadout now isnt the Marders, its the fact that there are Leos behind them. You have to ingore shooting something and thats the rough part. Marders just work really well because their cost effiency and vet design.

The problem is you can't do this while moving, and holding a stiff line will often see you overrun and killed.

As soon as that happens you're going to see people begging for an increase in the T-80U cost! ;)

Right now I think both the T-80U and the Leopard 2A4 are underpriced. With the tank range change mixing up the metagame main gun AP at the very high levels is now much more important and the AP 10 breakpoint which allows them to shoot at their max range against other heavy tanks is a very important one to reach. I think I'd like to see AP of all guns with the range increase reduced by 1 (so essentially the AP is at it's pre-patch values with the bonus range being at -1 AP), something done about the Leo 2 pricing (Leo 2 is overpriced compared to the 2A1 which is overpriced compared to the 2A4) AND the Abrams pricing (bottom two are now awful).

Mazz
Second-Lieutenant
Posts: 751
Joined: Thu 8 Mar 2012 05:31
Contact:

Re: Is the Marder 1 / Marder VTS1 spam unbeatable ?

Postby Mazz » Fri 20 Apr 2012 16:12

PACT really does get the short end of the stick when forced to fight on the move.
Image

bentguru
Warrant Officer
Posts: 461
Joined: Mon 20 Feb 2012 02:30
Contact:

Re: Is the Marder 1 / Marder VTS1 spam unbeatable ?

Postby bentguru » Sat 21 Apr 2012 07:56

Mazz wrote:PACT really does get the short end of the stick when forced to fight on the move.


Not really. I've been playing PACT a lot more recently (having concluded there really isn't any more improvements to be made in my NATO fast attack build) and have been getting equivalent results to my nato deck, even when facing NATO rushes that are reasonable identical to mine.

A combination T-80, T-80U, zhalo, and burritano force is a complete wrecking ball of destruction and arguably better than it's NATO equivalent. The cheap price of the T-80s lets me field 1 of them for every 2 Rise pattons (give or take) nato can get, so I will be starting each match with 4-6 heavy tanks. The zhalos are excellent skirmishers and pound for pound can stand up to VTS1s, and they're also very good flankers. The burritano gives me massive close range arty support, so you can kiss pretty much any wooded defensive line goodbye, a capability nato definitely does not enjoy.

Yeah T-80s don't have stabs, but with good micro you can pretty much circumvent it by keeping them still while firing and moving while reloading. Usually the result has been enemy VTS1s get shredded in the opening minutes, isolated L2A4s are then overwhelmed by 2x-3x their number of heavy tanks wailing on them, or I just burritano their general area and they panic. Either way I win. The fire rate advantage that PACT heavy tanks enjoy over their NATO counterparts is pretty huge.

And once the T-80s get vetted, which they do fairly easily due to their low price, they get magical vet stabs anyway so it ceases to be a problem.

tiago
Captain
Posts: 1667
Joined: Wed 22 Feb 2012 16:14
Contact:

Re: Is the Marder 1 / Marder VTS1 spam unbeatable ?

Postby tiago » Sat 21 Apr 2012 13:58

Funny people always claimed NATO was for the elite guys, that excel using more micro management. But in fact is pact with current meta that needs more micromanagement exactly because of its lack of stablizers.

Don't know how people can complain of t80U's while LEO 2A4 is still around with this price. Russian tanks get a heavy hit on its cost due to having missile launchers. Missiles that hit far far less than they are advertised and are RARELY useful until you get quite close or you just waste them for nothing.


The only thing NATO can complain is that the base Abrams should be reduced by 10 or something.

Burratinos are not an exclusive advantage. The mortars can do a very good work on forests as well. They are less explosive but they do not cost 20 points PER SHOT also. So on long games mortars are better while burratinso are better on the first impact.

LapinDuracell
Corporal
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu 5 Apr 2012 12:12
Contact:

Re: Is the Marder 1 / Marder VTS1 spam unbeatable ?

Postby LapinDuracell » Mon 23 Apr 2012 08:44

bentguru wrote:
Mazz wrote:PACT really does get the short end of the stick when forced to fight on the move.


Not really. I've been playing PACT a lot more recently (having concluded there really isn't any more improvements to be made in my NATO fast attack build) and have been getting equivalent results to my nato deck, even when facing NATO rushes that are reasonable identical to mine.

A combination T-80, T-80U, zhalo, and burritano force is a complete wrecking ball of destruction and arguably better than it's NATO equivalent. The cheap price of the T-80s lets me field 1 of them for every 2 Rise pattons (give or take) nato can get, so I will be starting each match with 4-6 heavy tanks. The zhalos are excellent skirmishers and pound for pound can stand up to VTS1s, and they're also very good flankers. The burritano gives me massive close range arty support, so you can kiss pretty much any wooded defensive line goodbye, a capability nato definitely does not enjoy.

Yeah T-80s don't have stabs, but with good micro you can pretty much circumvent it by keeping them still while firing and moving while reloading. Usually the result has been enemy VTS1s get shredded in the opening minutes, isolated L2A4s are then overwhelmed by 2x-3x their number of heavy tanks wailing on them, or I just burritano their general area and they panic. Either way I win. The fire rate advantage that PACT heavy tanks enjoy over their NATO counterparts is pretty huge.

And once the T-80s get vetted, which they do fairly easily due to their low price, they get magical vet stabs anyway so it ceases to be a problem.


By the way, Bentguru, don't you think the BMP-685 could have a role in the Pact fast attack deck ? It's fast, has good stab and good gun. Low armor of course, even worse than Marder, and pretty expensive too. If not in rush, then I can't see how to use this unit ...

User avatar
Satire
Sergeant Major of the Army
Posts: 350
Joined: Sun 26 Feb 2012 03:43
Contact:

Re: Is the Marder 1 / Marder VTS1 spam unbeatable ?

Postby Satire » Mon 23 Apr 2012 10:28

^I used it extensively pre-patch... But why would you now? I would far rather have a singular T-80 than even three BMP-685s.
Alias - Cpt.Fantastic

Mazz
Second-Lieutenant
Posts: 751
Joined: Thu 8 Mar 2012 05:31
Contact:

Re: Is the Marder 1 / Marder VTS1 spam unbeatable ?

Postby Mazz » Mon 23 Apr 2012 16:22

Well the 80Us dont suffer on the move, regular 80s do but thats proably why they cost 60% of a 2A4. I shouldve said they're less capable on the move then NATO, but not by any means noticably bad.

Im not sure stopping them before they shoot changes the accuracy once they are already aiming, the percentage doesnt seem to change for me until after the shot is taken. Maybe thats just a UI problem though. Its also really tedious to try and micro 5 tanks that way IMO. Then again Ive never really had to do it since the patch so I have no practice.
Image

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests