Heavy tanks = boring

Toot
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Re: Heavy tanks = boring

Postby Toot » Sat 12 May 2012 12:27

I just bmp1 rushed somebody in ranked and killed all his leo2's with them. 1800 ELO vs my 1620 elo

Forgot to activate deck and defaulted to starter deck.

Replay:

http://www.wargamereplays.org/index.php?page=replay&id=651

BMP1 is overpowered lol. Side hits did a lot of damage at the start of the engagement, then the T-62M's and BMP ATGMs finished them off. I think the key to beating heavy tanks PACT or NATO is to give them too many units to shoot at.

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Re: Heavy tanks = boring

Postby robbinx730 » Sat 12 May 2012 12:40

Problem with beating T80's when spamming them, is that they shoot 10 rounds a min, opposed to 7 of nato which makes a big diffrence. although possible, especially on an infantry heavy map like rivers of blood.

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Re: Heavy tanks = boring

Postby Misfit » Sat 12 May 2012 12:43

DeuZerre wrote:Just a simple question: When was the last time you saw in the same battle a Leo 1, a Patton, a T-64 and a T-72?

Almost every public game i am playing and im not kidding you. What i dont see anymore is 30 year old tanks forming successfull spearheads, i give you that.

DeuZerre wrote: A group of amx-30s popping out of a wood to flank a group of T-55s and T-72s that was harassing chieftains and a challenger, countered by a group of Zhalos? In the current meta, either the challenger would have popped a few guys, forcing them to retreat, or a group of T-80s would have just blown off every single chieftain before they even could be in range, then backed off.


Yes that doesnt happen often anymore, but i had zero fun in MBTs routing to 8 <insert random 15-25 point unit> because those could simply stun>shake>panic>rout MBTs with shots to the front.

In my opinion it was a horrible metagame before, and now you have to use your units more carefully and cheap tanks belong to flanks or to set up ambushes.

Increasing costs of some tanks, that got the ranged buff, might be justified (specificaly the Leo2A4 because they got so much better compared to every other tank). But when you lower other tanks costs you break the balance between them and every other unit.
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Re: Heavy tanks = boring

Postby ikalugin » Sat 12 May 2012 12:47

Or you can make ATGM more powerful.

Basically people think that heavy tanks should be some sort of uber weapon, that can penetrate the defense line or kill 100500 medium tanks by backing off slightly. This is wrong, they are not for that - they are for exploitation and mobile combat.
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Misfit
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Re: Heavy tanks = boring

Postby Misfit » Sat 12 May 2012 12:50

ikalugin wrote:Or you can make ATGM more powerful.

Basically people think that heavy tanks should be some sort of uber weapon, that can penetrate the defense line or kill 100500 medium tanks by backing off slightly. This is wrong, they are not for that - they are for exploitation and mobile combat.


Bumrushing any well defended line with MBTs is still doomed to fail, like it was before The Patch.


Edit: And when ATGMs get more powerfull we will see more cheap tanks?
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Re: Heavy tanks = boring

Postby Hegemon » Sat 12 May 2012 12:55

I don't know why people still think that better stabs=better offense only. So the 2A4s are better than T-80Us on offense cause of better stabs. That is obviously true, but they are better on the defense as well. If you are pulling back and shooting, you use stabs too. So A4s are better on the defense as well. I don't know why nobody thought about it before.
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Re: Heavy tanks = boring

Postby Hegemon » Sat 12 May 2012 12:56

Misfit wrote:Edit: And when ATGMs get more powerfull we will see more cheap tanks?

Yes. You will still need tanks, but mass MBTs may be to much points in to few units.
REDDQ wrote:T-80U shoots AP rounds made of pure Communism... any more questions?

ikalugin
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Re: Heavy tanks = boring

Postby ikalugin » Sat 12 May 2012 13:09

Misfit wrote:
ikalugin wrote:Or you can make ATGM more powerful.

Basically people think that heavy tanks should be some sort of uber weapon, that can penetrate the defense line or kill 100500 medium tanks by backing off slightly. This is wrong, they are not for that - they are for exploitation and mobile combat.


Bumrushing any well defended line with MBTs is still doomed to fail, like it was before The Patch.


Edit: And when ATGMs get more powerfull we will see more cheap tanks?

You would also see expanded use of combined arms to suppress those anti tank weapons.
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Cygnus
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Re: Heavy tanks = boring

Postby Cygnus » Sat 12 May 2012 13:21

As a whole lot of other people said, "heavy" tanks are just too common now, especially in team games. I'm not sure how it is in ranked, but in team games the outcome of a battle is usually determined by whoever kills the opposing players T-80U's or Leo 2A4's, which is really boring. A 150m nerf on the heavy tanks would fix things up a lot.

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Re: Heavy tanks = boring

Postby Hegemon » Sat 12 May 2012 13:25

Cygnus wrote:As a whole lot of other people said, "heavy" tanks are just too common now, especially in team games. I'm not sure how it is in ranked, but in team games the outcome of a battle is usually determined by whoever kills the opposing players T-80U's or Leo 2A4's, which is really boring. A 150m nerf on the heavy tanks would fix things up a lot.

From my experience it is the same in ranked.
REDDQ wrote:T-80U shoots AP rounds made of pure Communism... any more questions?

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