Heavy tanks = boring

ikalugin
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Re: Heavy tanks = boring

Postby ikalugin » Sat 12 May 2012 13:27

Hegemon wrote:
Cygnus wrote:As a whole lot of other people said, "heavy" tanks are just too common now, especially in team games. I'm not sure how it is in ranked, but in team games the outcome of a battle is usually determined by whoever kills the opposing players T-80U's or Leo 2A4's, which is really boring. A 150m nerf on the heavy tanks would fix things up a lot.

From my experience it is the same in ranked.

I think it is the result of people whining about how heavy tanks were not worth their money.
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Re: Heavy tanks = boring

Postby Cygnus » Sat 12 May 2012 13:34

I know, but the funny thing is even before the nerf I managed to use them fairly effectively by having 10 front armor so all enemy guns would get "inefficient" on my front armor. I would then kite enemy units until they died or ran away.

Right now however, it's so easy to kite things that there's no point using anything else. Especially the so-called medium tanks that cost between 60-90 have taken a huge hit and I hardly see them anymore.

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Re: Heavy tanks = boring

Postby ikalugin » Sat 12 May 2012 13:40

Cygnus wrote:I know, but the funny thing is even before the nerf I managed to use them fairly effectively by having 10 front armor so all enemy guns would get "inefficient" on my front armor. I would then kite enemy units until they died or ran away.

Right now however, it's so easy to kite things that there's no point using anything else. Especially the so-called medium tanks that cost between 60-90 have taken a huge hit and I hardly see them anymore.

Can it be b/c:
- Medium tanks are 1 shot by heavy tanks.
- Medium tanks need to close in under fire to even score side hits (due to range advantage).
- WP medium tanks cannot shoot on the move.
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Re: Heavy tanks = boring

Postby DiabloTigerSix » Sat 12 May 2012 13:42

The thing with heavy tanks is - you always need them. Always.

It's the unit that stops the enemy from advancing forward, cathing all their fire and just shruging it off (sometimes it's being repaired at faster rate than it is taking damage) while you're flaking the enemy with something cheap.

Cheaper tanks just don't work in this HEAD-on role anywhere near as well - they don't carry an impenetrable shield at the front.

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Re: Heavy tanks = boring

Postby sgnl05 » Sat 12 May 2012 14:26

Misfit wrote:Spot on, cant stress that enough. Its not about buying a hard counter and estimating the unit to take acare of everything, but about combined forces.


But why shouldn't heavy tanks have something like a hard counter? Pretty much everything else does. Helicopters get shot down by AA, which gets killed by tanks. Infantry gets killed by tanks in the open (i.e most of the map) and are particularly vulnerably to artillery or flamethrowers even when they're in a forest. Artillery dies to anything that gets close enough to shoot at it, and medium tanks now get eaten alive by heavies in the open (most of the map!). ATGM units can't defend themselves against infantry and tend to be more vulnerable to artillery as well.

What counters heavy tanks? Infantry will kill them in a forest, and choppers will kill them without AA support, but that isn't a weakness particular to heavy tanks because every other vehicle in the game will also be destroyed in those situations, in addition to their other vulnerabilities. It isn't exactly like it's hard to keep tanks covered by AA and away from unscouted forests either. The only other thing is ATGM units, but without heavies of their own working with them I reckon they'd have a 50/50 chance at best. There just isn't any unit that gives heavy tanks much of a problem unless the guy using them does something dumb.


EDIT: I'm not saying that they have to have a hard counter, but if they don't then they really shouldn't be quite so good against so many other unit types in such a wide variety of situations.

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Re: Heavy tanks = boring

Postby Space » Sat 12 May 2012 14:40

Toot wrote:..... I think the key to beating heavy tanks PACT or NATO is to give them too many units to shoot at.


Thats what I do - hold the line with tanks and then rush with 8-10 inf - works 90% of the time.

ikalugin
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Re: Heavy tanks = boring

Postby ikalugin » Sat 12 May 2012 14:42

Space wrote:
Toot wrote:..... I think the key to beating heavy tanks PACT or NATO is to give them too many units to shoot at.


Thats what I do - hold the line with tanks and then rush with 8-10 inf - works 90% of the time.

Did they reply with autocannons and reversing?

Also you would notice that medium tanks cannot really "hold the line" against heavy ones.
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Re: Heavy tanks = boring

Postby phawkins1988 » Sat 12 May 2012 14:48

DeuZerre wrote:Just a simple question: When was the last time you saw in the same battle a Leo 1, a Patton, a T-64 and a T-72? A group of amx-30s popping out of a wood to flank a group of T-55s and T-72s that was harassing chieftains and a challenger, countered by a group of Zhalos? In the current meta, either the challenger would have popped a few guys, forcing them to retreat, or a group of T-80s would have just blown off every single chieftain before they even could be in range, then backed off.

I see these pretty often. Pattons I use every game as NATO, T-72s every game as Pact.

It's the high end mid tanks that have been most gimped. M11P and so on.

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Re: Heavy tanks = boring

Postby phawkins1988 » Sat 12 May 2012 14:50

Cygnus wrote:I know, but the funny thing is even before the nerf I managed to use them fairly effectively by having 10 front armor so all enemy guns would get "inefficient" on my front armor. I would then kite enemy units until they died or ran away.

Was a lot harder though, and much easier to get side armour hits in. It was very hard to kite a group of fast flankers like the VTS1 before the range buff (though my micro is pretty bad).

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Re: Heavy tanks = boring

Postby maensen » Sat 12 May 2012 14:50

The only thing i figured out vs heavys is put an arty barrage on them. Flank and front em while they are stunned. Keep helos guarding your attack. If there is anti air arty, try to get it with fast vehicles at the same time. This will confuse the enemy... Well not only the enemy though :lol:

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