T-80 overpowered?

Admiral Yoshi
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Re: T-80 overpowered?

Postby Admiral Yoshi » Mon 14 May 2012 03:23

The only thing that makes tanks like the T-80U overpowered is not in the stats or the game's imbalance, but the ability of the player to use its arsenal correctly makes the T-80U or the Leopard 2A4 tank overpowered.

It's not the weapon itself that is dangerous, rather the person's ability makes the weapon dangerous.

caparo
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Re: T-80 overpowered?

Postby caparo » Mon 14 May 2012 04:28

Admiral Yoshi wrote:The only thing that makes tanks like the T-80U overpowered is not in the stats or the game's imbalance, but the ability of the player to use its arsenal correctly makes the T-80U or the Leopard 2A4 tank overpowered.

It's not the weapon itself that is dangerous, rather the person's ability makes the weapon dangerous.


+1

Well said.

Technological superiority is great and all, but it does not guarantee victory.

Naturgewalt
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Re: T-80 overpowered?

Postby Naturgewalt » Mon 14 May 2012 06:36

The Game Fegelein posted was long lost before my full veteran leopard 2 were destroyed and I did not try to "play" but just try things out and see what happens. And no, I did not attack there with the meaning of winning or achieving something but to see how much damage the ATGMs deal to my tanks and from where.

Thx btw for that replay, I forgot to save it myself.

I would like you guys to stick on topic.

Its T-80U beeing OP with all given circumstances which I dont want to discuss because they are well known.

When I find time with a mate I will test how T80U faces Leopard 2 which equal point cost (u can adjust the cost with experiences on both sides, so that both Nato and pact have same points, but only T80U and Leo2). The scenario would be, that the tanks face on open field and approach until they can fire at each other in front with main gun without cover.

I will post the outcome.

My feeling is just, that the T80U might require higher point cost due to the unique combination of high damage main gun, high end ATGM + best armour and very good speed.

I think that could be worth even 200-250 points.

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ericdude88
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Re: T-80 overpowered?

Postby ericdude88 » Mon 14 May 2012 06:49

Naturgewalt wrote:The Game Fegelein posted was long lost before my full veteran leopard 2 were destroyed and I did not try to "play" but just try things out and see what happens. And no, I did not attack there with the meaning of winning or achieving something but to see how much damage the ATGMs deal to my tanks and from where.

Thx btw for that replay, I forgot to save it myself.

I would like you guys to stick on topic.

Its T-80U beeing OP with all given circumstances which I dont want to discuss because they are well known.

When I find time with a mate I will test how T80U faces Leopard 2 which equal point cost (u can adjust the cost with experiences on both sides, so that both Nato and pact have same points, but only T80U and Leo2). The scenario would be, that the tanks face on open field and approach until they can fire at each other in front with main gun without cover.

I will post the outcome.

My feeling is just, that the T80U might require higher point cost due to the unique combination of high damage main gun, high end ATGM + best armour and very good speed.

I think that could be worth even 200-250 points.

Haha so If you weren't trying to play and were just trying things out why'd you rage so hard? You literally cussed the crap out of everyone in game!! :lol: :lol: :lol: Then you ragequit!! hahaaha!
Seriously? You suck with Leo 2 because you keep exposing your side and rear!
/Thread seriously..

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Re: T-80 overpowered?

Postby jjnd » Mon 14 May 2012 06:58

Naturgewalt wrote:The Game Fegelein posted was long lost before my full veteran leopard 2 were destroyed and I did not try to "play" but just try things out and see what happens. And no, I did not attack there with the meaning of winning or achieving something but to see how much damage the ATGMs deal to my tanks and from where.

Thx btw for that replay, I forgot to save it myself.

I would like you guys to stick on topic.

Its T-80U beeing OP with all given circumstances which I dont want to discuss because they are well known.

When I find time with a mate I will test how T80U faces Leopard 2 which equal point cost (u can adjust the cost with experiences on both sides, so that both Nato and pact have same points, but only T80U and Leo2). The scenario would be, that the tanks face on open field and approach until they can fire at each other in front with main gun without cover.

I will post the outcome.

My feeling is just, that the T80U might require higher point cost due to the unique combination of high damage main gun, high end ATGM + best armour and very good speed.

I think that could be worth even 200-250 points.
Wow. You really don't understand how to use your 4 Leo2s, 4 M1A1s and 2 (or 4) Challengers to take out those pesky 2 T-80s. If you can't learn how to do that, you need to look at your tactics and say.. you're using these weapons the wrong way. EVERYONE on the forum is against you. That might give you a clue. NO ONE is standing up for you. Yes T80 is powerful but so are the 8 OTHER NATO TANKS.

Naturgewalt
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Re: T-80 overpowered?

Postby Naturgewalt » Mon 14 May 2012 07:06

I did not use any tanks but Leopard2 in this game. Dont know where u see me using any other tank. Its not happening in there (hint: the players name is written above the units he owns...).

And if any developer is reading this topic: consider a point cost increase for T80-U.

In case of the other issues like Main Tank Gun vs ATGMs I will make another topic at the given time when I have further insights into that and made some research :)

Thx. Topic can be closed.

jjnd
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Re: T-80 overpowered?

Postby jjnd » Mon 14 May 2012 07:11

Naturgewalt wrote:I did not use any tanks but Leopard2 in this game. Dont know where u see me using any other tank. Its not happening in there (hint: the players name is written above the units he owns...).

And if any developer is reading this topic: consider a point cost increase for T80-U.

In case of the other issues like Main Tank Gun vs ATGMs I will make another topic at the given time when I have further insights into that and made some research :)

Thx. Topic can be closed.

You just said you "weren't really playing the game, just experimenting". If you're not trying to win or using tactics necessary to, you shouldn't be asking for nerfs and buffs to anything. Now if you lose constantly and are TRYING to win, come back and we'll have another discussion. But even then 8 NATO tanks vs. 2 Pact tanks. There will NOT be an increase in points. Maybe a decrease.. but NOT an increase for the T-80U.

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Re: T-80 overpowered?

Postby Misfit » Mon 14 May 2012 07:56

Naturgewalt wrote:The Game Fegelein posted was long lost before my full veteran leopard 2 were destroyed and I did not try to "play" but just try things out and see what happens. And no, I did not attack there with the meaning of winning or achieving something but to see how much damage the ATGMs deal to my tanks and from where.

Thx btw for that replay, I forgot to save it myself.

I would like you guys to stick on topic.

Its T-80U beeing OP with all given circumstances which I dont want to discuss because they are well known.

When I find time with a mate I will test how T80U faces Leopard 2 which equal point cost (u can adjust the cost with experiences on both sides, so that both Nato and pact have same points, but only T80U and Leo2). The scenario would be, that the tanks face on open field and approach until they can fire at each other in front with main gun without cover.

I will post the outcome.

My feeling is just, that the T80U might require higher point cost due to the unique combination of high damage main gun, high end ATGM + best armour and very good speed.

I think that could be worth even 200-250 points.


T-80U is not balanced with Leo2A4. The T-80U is the better tank statswise. They are however pretty good balanced in the grand scale because you can only field 2 T-80U per player. And the next tank in the line is T-80BV which cant penetrate a 10 point armor at max range.
Perlen vor die Säue.

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Re: T-80 overpowered?

Postby ow592 » Mon 14 May 2012 08:26

Naturgewalt wrote:My feeling is just, that the T80U might require higher point cost due to the unique combination of high damage main gun, high end ATGM + best armour and very good speed.

I think that could be worth even 200-250 points.


Yeah, and please lower the availability of T-80U. It should be only possible to field one of them every third match! :roll:

T-80U hasn´t got best armor in game. ATGM+gun isn´t that usefull because you can only fire one of them each time. you will have much more firepower if you use Leo2A4 + NATO ATGM at nearly the same price. And we told you 1000 times that 1 Leo will be killed by 1 T-80U. 4 Leo2A4 against 2 T-80U + 2 T-80BV is a different story.

And if you don´t understand that the game is army vs. army and not 1 tank vs. 1 tank then you haven´t understood the game.
No middle tanks on flank => ATGM will kill heavy tanks or flanking from other tanks
Stacking everything on a small area => incoming arty and killing light stuff and stunning heavy units
No or only small AA => Havoc-party

Naturgewalt
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Re: T-80 overpowered?

Postby Naturgewalt » Mon 14 May 2012 12:37

I listen for what u say and I took all your "everybody with a different oppinion than me is a noob" answers into consideration.

Ofc you right, the game is more complex and so are the armies. I could go deeper into this, but I when I read the replies, I dont think a long text would help anything here. I will try another approach instead:

I went through the point cost with other units too and found same more very strange things.
For example there are the "Heimatschützen" with Tpz Fuchs or m113 transport. Both cost 15, but the Fuchs beats the M113 in all categories. Or are the tracks also a difference? I did not measure different speed effects of tracked/wheeled transport.

If a game tends to prefer some specific units u need to adjust their stats or their cost. Obviously all Soviet players use T-80U. I would not mind if they could place 4 of them, if only they wore as expensive as they should be (IMO of course... but feel free to have ur own oppinion, but stop calling me this or that).

In general I try to play with some specific style, as for the moment I am trying to work with Panzergrenadiers in Marder arround my Leopard 2 because that is how its supposed to be. But in fact there are just better combinations and for the price of panzergrenadiers + marder u get other ATGM carriers far superior (Jaguar 2, Milan Teams).
That makes me sad, because the game forces you to skip background and simulation for a maxed out and optimized and pretty unrealistic multinational force. Even Nato would not have mixed their troops like it is done in Wargame. at least not in this scale.

What this game maybe lacks are passive abilities. For example Panzergrenadiere or other infantery supposed to cover up tanks could provide an area effect giving tanks additional cover. Its just an example for "abstract" stats and modifiers that could only work in games like this. I know it sounds like a "fantasy game aura" but that fantasy game stuff all originated in american tabletop strategy games and that was for a reason.

I just would like to see adjusted point cost and at least a bit more support for style armies.
I even tried to make a nation only list (only french, only US and so on), but the upcoming flaws were so big I just let it go. So a german only list lack a helicopter with exceptional optics, which I think is vital for a recon heli... :(
The german recon heli could cost less then a half of the (edit:) english (Gazelle) one, because he is less than half as good IMO.

Now spam more "you are noob because..." stuff.

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