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Smoke screens?

Posted: Wed 9 May 2012 12:54
by Orange
Smoke screens played quite a high role in WiC. Seeing that the tank models do have those tubes with some code and a smoke effect this could really enhance the game. Then again WiC did not have atgms the same way as Wargame.

Re: Smoke screens?

Posted: Wed 9 May 2012 13:05
by derpcannon BG
There are some earlier threads about this idea. I hope you go read them.

I also think it would be great to have ECM systeems and flares on certain vehicles.

Re: Smoke screens?

Posted: Wed 9 May 2012 13:16
by Fri13
derpcannon BG wrote:There are some earlier threads about this idea. I hope you go read them.

I also think it would be great to have ECM systeems and flares on certain vehicles.


If flares and other counter measurements are implemented, then the range scale needs to be changed to realistic one.

Right now game calculates visually 100m range to be in game about 500m. What is ridiculous because units needs to be so close to each other to actually fight.

With counter measures, the 500m -> 100m scaling needs to be done. What means that maps size of 30x30km drops to 6x6km size.
And it means that tanks can shoot 1/3 of the map range accurate or over 1/2 of size but inaccurate and not great change to penetrate target.

AA would change as well, like missiles could fly and hit anything on map with deadly accuracy. But because we have counter measurements, it isn't problem.

Infantry would need to be changed so their max firing range is 300m what is max for accuracy and good penetration against infantry. So they would only gain little better range.

And because every unit what shoots direct fire, needs to have LOS (line of sight), it does not cause problems at all even if they can shoot far, because if you want to get location where example AA has wide as possible view to battlefield, they are limited for their positions and they need to come open where they are easier to shoot far away.

Tanks becomes what they are, a support units for infantry. And real battle is done with infantry what should be nearly invisible for recon units unless recon stay still and recon long time and enemy moves at that time.

Flares, smokes, artillery fire rising dirt, flames.... all would block LOS and make fighting harder and strategy and tactics becomes more important than just spamming units on field to counter other unit.

Re: Smoke screens?

Posted: Wed 9 May 2012 14:37
by ikalugin
Your conception on proper use of tanks is wrong.

Also I think the scale on maps is fine as it is, it is sufficiently large to be believable, but smoke would be nice.

Re: Smoke screens?

Posted: Wed 9 May 2012 15:24
by Misfit
Fri13 wrote:
Tanks becomes what they are, a support units for infantry.


What? :shock:

Re: Smoke screens?

Posted: Wed 9 May 2012 15:24
by quigglebert
Actually, tanks are an infantry support weapon, their original purpose to break he deadlock in trench warfare, proving ineffective at that, mostly, today the role of tanks is either to spearhead assaults with mechanised infantry providing fire support, after the infantry dismount or to kill tanks which are aiming to kill infantry, and their supporting ifvs, in no situation today can armour go without infantry, it's suicide, modern mbt's are capable of soaking up considerable punishment but only in supporting role the advent of agtms and gunships means a lone tank is a very dead tank

Re: Smoke screens?

Posted: Wed 9 May 2012 15:32
by ikalugin
quigglebert wrote:Actually, tanks are an infantry support weapon, their original purpose to break he deadlock in trench warfare, proving ineffective at that, mostly, today the role of tanks is either to spearhead assaults with mechanised infantry providing fire support, after the infantry dismount or to kill tanks which are aiming to kill infantry, and their supporting ifvs, in no situation today can armour go without infantry, it's suicide, modern mbt's are capable of soaking up considerable punishment but only in supporting role the advent of agtms and gunships means a lone tank is a very dead tank

Are you familiar with terms "deep battle", "mobile group", "breakthrough exploitation"?

Re: Smoke screens?

Posted: Wed 9 May 2012 15:48
by Graphic
Unit abilities are definitely something missing from the game.

Re: Smoke screens?

Posted: Wed 9 May 2012 15:53
by ikalugin
Graphic wrote:Unit abilities are definitely something missing from the game.

Some would say that it is necessarily to avoid the micro heavy games.

Re: Smoke screens?

Posted: Wed 9 May 2012 16:04
by Graphic
ikalugin wrote:
Graphic wrote:Unit abilities are definitely something missing from the game.

Some would say that it is necessarily to avoid the micro heavy games.


There still wouldn't be base building or resource gathering. This is the least micro-intensive game I've played. Even Total War requires more.

Just give some units 1 ability and make them all use the same key. I don't think that'll transform it into Dawn of War II.