Bulgaria: some aircraft loadout suggestions for wargame 4 and more

Steamfunk
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Re: Bulgaria: some aircraft loadout suggestions for wargame 4 and more

Postby Steamfunk » Mon 19 Feb 2018 22:16

It's a shame that more can't be done with rockets in the AP department because the Su-17/22 is a great rocket truck.


They often mount rocket pods on display aircraft, not sure why. It's hard to find photos of actual weapon loads, but that's the same for all Soviet aircraft. Some of the best info comes from ex-servicemen, there are also articles on 'Sky Corner' (http://www.airwar.ru) - look under post-war and modern.

In theory the Su-17 can carry more than the Flogger but at the same time it's compatible with a wider range of weapons, the M4 also has a steerable camera which makes it similar to Kaira in terms of operation. The main problem I have with the Su-17 as a bomber is it's poor performance, although the AL-21 doesn't quite match the later Tumansky engines in overall thrust it is still rated at over 17,000 pounds dry. The only things I dislike about the MiG-23BN are the mediocre ECM and cannon.
Last edited by Steamfunk on Tue 20 Feb 2018 06:46, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Bulgaria: some aircraft loadout suggestions for wargame 4 and more

Postby HrcAk47 » Tue 20 Feb 2018 04:06

The SEAD never bothered me anyway.

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Re: Bulgaria: some aircraft loadout suggestions for wargame 4 and more

Postby logonutility » Tue 20 Feb 2018 09:09

This is very necessary information who have aircraft & planning to make them innovative.

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Re: Bulgaria: some aircraft loadout suggestions for wargame 4 and more

Postby hansbroger » Tue 20 Feb 2018 17:55

Every once in a while you find a gem. This is in my wished for loadouts file :(

Su-17M4 with 4xR-24
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Also... Since the insistence that the Su-24 use the Kh-28 instead of Kh-58... I've always wondered why can't we have 4 ARMs like the Kh-25MP or Kh-27PS which more closely approximates the performance of the missiles modeled on the Su-24 SEAD variant?
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In a timeframe where there is the Kh-25MP or Kh-27PS, Kh-31 and Kh-58 We all know there is only one aircraft that should truly be carrying the Kh-28 in game....
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Re: Bulgaria: some aircraft loadout suggestions for wargame 4 and more

Postby hansbroger » Tue 20 Feb 2018 20:02

molnibalage wrote:So it made very theoratical to use well R-23T because it was not all aspect IR AAM. Likely this is the reason why did not got R-27T the MiG-29 9.12/13 because it is pointless to sacrifice your all aspect SARH BVR missile to a quite hypotetical silent intercept capability.

As I said was theoretical. Very rarely you could see R-23T on MiG-23 and in case 1-1 R/T conifg was used it means assymetric loadout


It seems like a hypothetical R-24T/27T only loadout would really only be a good choice for a PVO bomber stalker and nothing else. Though that getting said with Wargame's all aspect treatment of IR AAMs it is a fun loadout to think about.
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Re: Bulgaria: some aircraft loadout suggestions for wargame 4 and more

Postby Steamfunk » Tue 20 Feb 2018 22:28

It seems like a hypothetical R-24T/27T only loadout would really only be a good choice for a PVO bomber stalker and nothing else. Though that getting said with Wargame's all aspect treatment of IR AAMs it is a fun loadout to think about.


The R-24T is an all aspect missile, the R-27T has better coverage than the R-73 (up to 55 degrees off boresight) and can supposedly intercept a 7 or 8G target. The R-23 was designed to work with the Sapfir radar which uses analogue circuits, therefore it requires a seperate guidance block for each missile - earlier models only carried one block at a time so it would be either the R-23R or T, whereas the ML could carry two of them. Topaz uses digital processing so it doesn't really matter what combination of missiles is used, there's also a passive version named R-27P that was highly secret and didn't appear in public for nearly two decades.

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Re: Bulgaria: some aircraft loadout suggestions for wargame 4 and more

Postby molnibalage » Wed 21 Feb 2018 11:42

hansbroger wrote:
molnibalage wrote:So it made very theoratical to use well R-23T because it was not all aspect IR AAM. Likely this is the reason why did not got R-27T the MiG-29 9.12/13 because it is pointless to sacrifice your all aspect SARH BVR missile to a quite hypotetical silent intercept capability.

As I said was theoretical. Very rarely you could see R-23T on MiG-23 and in case 1-1 R/T conifg was used it means assymetric loadout


It seems like a hypothetical R-24T/27T only loadout would really only be a good choice for a PVO bomber stalker and nothing else. Though that getting said with Wargame's all aspect treatment of IR AAMs it is a fun loadout to think about.

I do not like such fantasy units but I do not care... RD is dead and any new nation is pointless to me. YUG shows what happens if you create a tottaly farirytale fantasy universe. I had to leard from WG that YUG has better arsenal many times that the no.1. superpower in the World. Lol..

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Re: Bulgaria: some aircraft loadout suggestions for wargame 4 and more

Postby ppd401 » Fri 2 Mar 2018 02:08

The Czech MiG-23ML has R-24s, as I suggested.

Ok sorry I meant that the Bulgarian MiG-23MLD and MLA should carry the R-24R.

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Re: Bulgaria: some aircraft loadout suggestions for wargame 4 and more

Postby ppd401 » Fri 2 Mar 2018 03:17



The unit roster is ok, but there could be some changes to add more flavor. Also, the infantry names are butchered. Bulgarian isnt 100% the same as Russian you know :D

First of all, Bulgaria never had the Su-17M3, nor was it ever offered, so it cant be in the unit roster.
The Su-22M4 has almost the same loadout the polish Su-22M4P. Why not make the Bulgarian Su-22M4 as the nation's ATGM plane, carrying 4xKh-25MLs or Kh-29Ls(Its confirmed that the bulgarian AF operate them, also 4 Kh-29s equal around 2800kg, well within the payload range of the Su-22), to separate it from the polish 2xKh-25ML carrying Su-22M4?

As I said earlier, Bulgarian MiG-23BNs never used the Kh-23 missile, so instead its more realistic to make it at an Iron bomber with 6xFAB-500s.

The MiG-23 loadouts are just how I like them :D . The MiG-23MF and ML(a loadout of 6xR-60Ms could be unique for it) could be added.
Why is the Il-28 there but not the MiG-25 and MiG-17?

BTW the Bulgarian People's Air Force also operated the L-39ZA. It could be a light rocket pod/anti-helicopter aircraft carrying 64x S-5 rockets and 2xR-60s.

The Su-25 loadout is just an analogous near copy of the other Redfor nation Su-25s. IMO the Su-25 should be Bulgaria's SEAD aircraft, carrying 4xKh-25MPs plus 40xS-8 rockets. It would be a SEAD aicraft very different in play style compared to the other nations, where it relies on its armor and maneuverability to loiter, instead of being a hit and run plane, and also destroy IR Missiles and AFVs while suppressing radar AA. Its disadvantage would be very low ECM.

The Bulgarian MiG-29 9.12 could have 4xR-60M AAMs to set it apart from the Yugoslavian MiG-29.

As for infantry names, motostrelki should be renamed into "Kashimeria" and raschet AGS into "granatomet", voen. zapas into "zapasnitsi"(Bulgarian reservists more extensively used the Mosin Nagant rifle, so they its more realistic for them to have it), saperi into "Ognehvurgachka", razvedchiki(russian word) into "Razuznavatelen Otryad" or "Granichari". BTW the shock recon squad has the same weapons as the spezialaufklarer. Why not change the RPG-7V to the RPG-22 or RPG-18?

The Bulgarian army also had elite paratroopers, the Red Berrets. They could be alternative shock troops. Dedicated AT squads carrying RPGs could be added(named "PT Vzvod") carrying RPG-7Vs and they could have a 90s version(unique to Bulgaria) carrying RPG-29s. They could be Redfor's SMAW equivalent.

The Mi-24V loadout is kinda boring, too similar to the czech Mi-35. A loadout of 128x S-5 rockets and 4x Kokon-M would be more realistic and interesting. Also, why not make the Bulgarian transport Mi-8 TV have 2x 23mm gunpods instead of boring S-5 rockets?

Also isnt the recon Mi-24D loadout a bit unrealistic? I though the Mi-24's ATGM pylons cant carry R-60s. Why not change them to iglas?

Finally, a word about coalitions. Although many people consider it natural to make Bulgaria in a coalition with Yugoslavia, this isnt the case. Yugoslavia and Bulgaria had some of the worst relations between any 2 socialist states during the cold war, due to the Macedonia issue. Thats why Yugoslavia should only be a coalition partner with romania, since the 2 countries cooperated extensively during the cold war. Instead, Bulgaria was the WP country that was most loyal to the USSR to the point of there being no soviet troops on Bulgarian soil, and that's why it would be historically appropriate for Bulgaria to be in a coalition with the soviets. The coalition should be called "Vechna Druzhba"(eternal friendship, as espoused by Bulgarian communist leaders during the cold war). Bulgaria could also be in a coalition with romania(can be called "Balkan Front" due to being on the same front if WW3 happened.

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HrcAk47
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Re: Bulgaria: some aircraft loadout suggestions for wargame 4 and more

Postby HrcAk47 » Sat 3 Mar 2018 00:53

ppd401 wrote:


good stuff


Hoho, great stuff, great stuff. Updated the spreadsheet with infantry names, renamed Spetzsili to Chervenite Bareti.

So, step by step.

Bulgaria used MiG-25R as strategic recon, which is something Eugen claims a huge no-no. Therefore dropped. Best you can get for them is hypothetical MiG-29SM Soviets offered in mid 90s.

MiG-17 is a meme plane at this age, it's probably not needed (for anyone in the game, really). What would you put on them, anyway?

I am okay with Bulgarian Seria, but you lose out on SEAD. It can not carry 4 Kh-29s, though.

MiG-23BN is now a bomber.

L-39ZA added, but it's not that great in Wargame.

Yugo MiG-29 is the sweet spot for a mid-tier fighter, and the loadout is outstanding. ;)

Eugen will likely say no to an infantry transport with GSh-23L pods.


As for the coalitioning; yes, Yugo-Bulgaria would be too unrealistic. Yugo had good relations to Romania (so that's one coalition), and Romania and Bulgaria are basically Southern Pact, so that's another.

Thanks for the input!
The SEAD never bothered me anyway.

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