Chinese Units in Wargame Red Dragon

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Re: Chinese Units in Wargame Red Dragon

Postby TankHunter » Wed 12 Feb 2014 04:29

ericdude88 wrote:
Graphic wrote:I'd even argue that, depending on the map and what decks Pact are running, France is sometimes better than the USA in ALB. Being compared to France is nothing to be alarmed about.


I think the primary concern is that China lacks super ATGMs like the French with their Milan F2 infantry and high end AGM Super Entendard. It will be interesting to see how China plays out in open beta.

But I sincerely hope that China won't be one of those "weak" factions out in the open ground... Its ground army is its pride and primary strength!


Isn't HJ-8 an uber ATGM? PLA's TOW 2? HJ-8A even better as well?
Also supposedly heli-borne HJ-8B is even better.

Milan and RBS56 are good but not godly, piss-poor range IIRC. TOW 2 and its many platform perform better. I also expect it will receive 2800m range.
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Re: Chinese Units in Wargame Red Dragon

Postby DrRansom » Wed 12 Feb 2014 04:36

ericdude88 - In reality, how would a Chinese ground force in 1988 stand in open ground against a Soviet tank division or US Armored division?

I thought that the history of the modern Chinese tanks began with a realization that the then current models were outclassed by the most common Western models. (not that I want China to be some bad minor, I'd just think it'd be more interesting of players had to deal with historical development circumstances.)

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Re: Chinese Units in Wargame Red Dragon

Postby Guggy » Wed 12 Feb 2014 04:45

DrRansom wrote:ericdude88 - In reality, how would a Chinese ground force in 1988 stand in open ground against a Soviet tank division or US Armored division?

I thought that the history of the modern Chinese tanks began with a realization that the then current models were outclassed by the most common Western models. (not that I want China to be some bad minor, I'd just think it'd be more interesting of players had to deal with historical development circumstances.)


You're asking the wrong person. Ask ikalugin, Panzersaurkrautwerfer, Tac_Error, or anyone else educated on the topic.

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Re: Chinese Units in Wargame Red Dragon

Postby ericdude88 » Wed 12 Feb 2014 04:52

DrRansom wrote:ericdude88 - In reality, how would a Chinese ground force in 1988 stand in open ground against a Soviet tank division or US Armored division?

I thought that the history of the modern Chinese tanks began with a realization that the then current models were outclassed by the most common Western models. (not that I want China to be some bad minor, I'd just think it'd be more interesting of players had to deal with historical development circumstances.)


In open ground, probably not so well, if we think in a purely tactical sense. China did not have comparable armor, and was still fighting by outdated doctrine.

But that doesn't mean China would lose war. Strategically, under the People's War doctrine, China would also outnumber the Soviet/US army by far and use tons of heavy artillery (whose main role was actually to also blast enemy armor). Such armies would be outmaneuvered on the strategic scale, as their artillery was numerous but towed, but the idea was that if the war was on mainland China then the concentration of Chinese armies would be so much that it would be hard to maneuver. The artillery also ensured that breakthrough was difficult.

I am worried, but satisfied with Eugen's disposition now that MadMat's clarified it. In any case, none of the countries are really going to be fighting with '88 armored decks in their Cat A. M1A2, Leo2A5, Leclerc, K1, Type 90, Challenger 2, none of those are '88 tanks. China however, will be facing them with '88 equipment which is sad.

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Re: Chinese Units in Wargame Red Dragon

Postby Mikeboy » Wed 12 Feb 2014 04:54

DrRansom wrote:ericdude88 - In reality, how would a Chinese ground force in 1988 stand in open ground against a Soviet tank division or US Armored division?


That's not the problem, the problem is the West and Soviet Union will be using equipment from the mid 90's, but China (which would still be weaker than them even if it did get its mid 90's equipment) is randomly relegated to using 80's stuff.

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Re: Chinese Units in Wargame Red Dragon

Postby ericdude88 » Wed 12 Feb 2014 04:57

Mikeboy wrote:
DrRansom wrote:ericdude88 - In reality, how would a Chinese ground force in 1988 stand in open ground against a Soviet tank division or US Armored division?


That's not the problem, the problem is the West and Soviet Union will be using equipment from the mid 90's, but China (which would still be weaker than them even if it did get its mid 90's equipment) is randomly relegated to using 80's stuff.


Nailed it. I couldn't have said it better.

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Re: Chinese Units in Wargame Red Dragon

Postby Hittinfrozenropes » Wed 12 Feb 2014 05:02

WZ-111 for China?

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Re: Chinese Units in Wargame Red Dragon

Postby Xeno426 » Wed 12 Feb 2014 05:19

Mikeboy wrote:That's not the problem, the problem is the West and Soviet Union will be using equipment from the mid 90's, but China (which would still be weaker than them even if it did get its mid 90's equipment) is randomly relegated to using 80's stuff.

So the only equipment China had in the mid 90's was the ZTZ-96 family of tanks? They had nothing else which will make an appearance in the game? There are no other units planned that are OOTF for China?
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A nation that needs one unit to be good is, in fact, a nation that sucks. One unit will not make or break a deck; it's the overall composition that matters. And right now, nobody but Eugen knows all the units China will have or their stats.
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Re: Chinese Units in Wargame Red Dragon

Postby Graphic » Wed 12 Feb 2014 05:26

Mikeboy wrote:That's not the problem, the problem is the West and Soviet Union will be using equipment from the mid 90's, but China (which would still be weaker than them even if it did get its mid 90's equipment) is randomly relegated to using 80's stuff.


Please don't pretend to know anything about this.
k

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Re: Chinese Units in Wargame Red Dragon

Postby LBJ » Wed 12 Feb 2014 05:40

Graphic wrote:Please don't pretend to know anything about this.


Oh, you really do deserved to say that. I know. ;)
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