My suggestions for the Bundeswehr in Wargame: Red Dragon

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enohka
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My suggestions for the Bundeswehr in Wargame: Red Dragon

Postby enohka » Sun 8 Sep 2013 14:07

Hello,

this thread is meant to list some suggestions for the West German army, the Bundeswehr, in Red-Dragon.

Over all I'd love to see more love for the Wiesels since they are unfortunately a totally unseen unit in ALB ATM, IRL the are a common vehicle. Please give us them at least for Mechanized decks ass well, not armored tho.

I will split the list it in the in game categories:

Logistics:

Since I'm not sure if the MD-Jupiter is a bit too old for the frame, there would be the option to use 2 Different versions of the MAN gl:

  • LKW 5 t mil gl KAT I - as a small supply truck
  • LKW 10 t mil gl KAT I - as a big supply truck
  • Wiesel 2 bewBefSt - Command vehicle
  • Marder 1A4 - Command vehicle

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAN_KAT1

While the Cv's are more or less okay as they are, I would love to have a "low end" tank cv with 2 availability per card, and a high end tank cv with of course 1. Since I can't find good sources for that, its might rely as a dream.

Infantry:

  • Fliegerfaust 2 - "Stinger" teams
  • Fallschirmjäger als elite Infantry with Panzerfaust 3 RPG and G36 assault rifle (maybe prototype but it would fit in the timeframe)

Sources:
Stinger - Offical German Heer website stating that first licence production started 1989 and first delivery 1992
G36 was accepted in 1995
Panzerfaust 3 first delivery 1992
Fallschirmjäger are spec ops infantry

Support:

  • Marder Roland 3;
  • Wiesel 2 Ozelot (FlaRaWaTrg); It is capable of firing Stinger, Rbs 70, Mistral and Igla rockets (Prototype since 1996 first usage)
    Image
  • Wiesel lePzMrs Mortar system
    Nice video of Wiesel lePzMrs in action.
  • Raketenwerfer MARS (m270 MLRS; Germany bought 150 pieces in 1990)
    Image
  • Pzh2000 (Heavy tube artillery, IF then prototype, first delivery in 1998
    Image


Sources:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiesel_AWC - Not so much details, german wiki has a own site for the ocelot

Tanks:

  • Leopard 2A5 KWS II; first production model left factories in 1995; featuring: L55 Main gun, additional Turret amour, a improved periscope for the commander with thermal vision including the option to select the next target for the gunner while he is still engaging. Note that the KWS II variant is just the upgrade of older Leopard 2 variant with all 2A5 features while the new produced Leopard 2A5 left factories in 1998
    Image
  • Leopard 1A6 VT-1/2 with L44 120mm smoothboore gun as prototype.
  • Radpanzer 90 (a bit like the french AMX-10 RC)
    Image


Recon:

  • Wiesel 2 AFF (No its not only a fire control system)
    Image
  • Gebirgsjäger as combat recon infantry (10 man special forces team) with Panzerfaust 3

Sources: Gebirgsjäger For Wiesel see bottom of post.

Vehicles:

  • Marder 2 IFV Prototype, better amoured, highly mobile, Stabilized 35 mm Autocannon with modern Fire Control System
    Image
  • VT1-2 Prototype which is pretty much a Chimera with 2 120mm l44 smoothboore guns, less amoured (Kpz 70 basis) but with 50 hp/ton (Leopard 2 has ~27 hp/ton) so very fast.
    Image
  • Begleitpanzer 57 AIFSV a very interresting prototype with a 57mm autocannon and a TOW/TOW 2/HOT launcher
    Image



Helicopter:

  • Eurocopter Tiger as prototype, first flight in 1991 note that the German variant has the OSIRIS optics like the recon kiowa variants have.
    Image

Sources: Wiesel family


To be continued - additions are very appreciated, esspecialy in Planes and ships.

I know that there is some stuff included which is maybe questionable, but as long as there are thing like the BMPT and Chimera, I feel free to introduce and ask for them.
Last edited by enohka on Sun 8 Sep 2013 14:24, edited 3 times in total.

ikalugin
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Re: My suggestions for the Bundeswehr in Wargame: Red Dragon

Postby ikalugin » Sun 8 Sep 2013 14:10

I am not sure if W.Germany gets any new non ship units.
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Spoiler : :
We need more missilez code for the missilez god.
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Re: My suggestions for the Bundeswehr in Wargame: Red Dragon

Postby theBLUBinYou » Sun 8 Sep 2013 14:12

We dont know. To be honest, I hope that every "old nation" will receives new units to stay competitive.
viewtopic.php?f=104&t=34770&start=190

Edit:
enohka wrote:Helicopter:
Eurocopter Tiger as prototype, first flight in 1991 note that the German variant has the OSIRIS radar like the recon kiowa variants have.

The OSIRIS system is not a radar.

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Re: My suggestions for the Bundeswehr in Wargame: Red Dragon

Postby enohka » Sun 8 Sep 2013 14:16

Well, as far as I know, a big part of the customers are in fact German, so why not? There is not much required to keep West Germany competitive with the other A nations.


@Changes OSIRIS text.

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Re: My suggestions for the Bundeswehr in Wargame: Red Dragon

Postby theBLUBinYou » Sun 8 Sep 2013 14:20

How about a SPz Marder 1A4? It would be a CV-version of the 1A3, in fact they're 1A3 with better radio devices and they were build for bataillon commanders.

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Re: My suggestions for the Bundeswehr in Wargame: Red Dragon

Postby enohka » Sun 8 Sep 2013 14:22

theBLUBinYou wrote:How about a SPz Marder 1A4? It would be a CV-version of the 1A3, in fact they're 1A3 with better radio devices and they were build for bataillon commanders.


That's a very good idea, in fact I dint add the 1A4 since it has no changes to the 1A3 but the encrypted radio device. I will add it.

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Re: My suggestions for the Bundeswehr in Wargame: Red Dragon

Postby Kamil » Sun 8 Sep 2013 14:24

Glad that more ppl are talking about "old" minor nations in next wargame! :)

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Re: My suggestions for the Bundeswehr in Wargame: Red Dragon

Postby praslovan » Sun 8 Sep 2013 14:27

enohka wrote:Hello,


Hey! That is my intro! :lol:

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Re: My suggestions for the Bundeswehr in Wargame: Red Dragon

Postby Rorschach » Sun 8 Sep 2013 15:09

ikalugin wrote:I am not sure if W.Germany gets any new non ship units.



Wait, since when were old nations getting ships???

I thought there was some controversy about how the old nations weren't getting anything!
A brilliant plan from the dirtiest euro-hippie: get US players to pay me for a game that I then show them how much their military sucks so I can feel better about being a communist.

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Re: My suggestions for the Bundeswehr in Wargame: Red Dragon

Postby Flieger » Sun 8 Sep 2013 16:10

Well, if it was my wishlist...


Post 1985 units (roughly up 1991):

Logistics:
- Wolf CV
- Fuchs CV
- Marder CV
- Wiesel 2 CV
- Unimog
Support:
- Gepard 1 A2
- Gepard 1 A2 with Stingers (prototype)
- Marder Roland 3
- Sonderaufbau Roland 3
- PzH M109 A3GA1
- Wiesel 2 lePzMrs (leichter Panzermörser)
- Wiesel 2 Ozelot FlaRakWaTrg (Flugabwehrraketenwaffenträger) Stinger
- MARS
Infantry:
- Fliegerfaust 2
- Jagdkommando Milan F2
- Kommando Spezialkräfte (special forces established 1996)
- new infantry weapons G-36 and PzF 3
Tanks:
- Leopard 2 A5
- Leopard 2 A6 (prototype)
Recon:
- Fuchs RASIT
Vehicle:
- Marder 2 (prototype)
- Radpanzer 90 (prototype)
- Wiesel 1 Flammpanzer (flamethrower tank prototype)
Helicopter:
- Bo-105 BSH 1 (Begleithubschrauber 1) (Bo-105 with stingers, prototype)
- Tiger PAH 2 (Panzerabwehrhubschrauber, called UH nowadays) (prototype)
Aircraft:
- Tornado ECR
- Navy Tornado with AS.34 Kormoran
- (MiG-29G)

Ships:

Fast Attack Craft:
143A Gepard Class (important), introduced 1982
143 Albatross Class (nice to have), introduced 1976

Frigates:
F122 Bremen Class (important), introduced 1982
F123 Brandenburg Class (nice to have), introduced 1994
F120 Köln Class (nice to have), introduced 1961

Destroyers (if included):
Z-103 Lütjens Class (= US Charles-F.-Adams Class), since 1969

Landing Craft Utility:
Class 520, introduced 1964

Tenders:
701 Lüneburg Class, since 1966
703 Walchensee Class, since 1966


Pre 1985 units:

Logistics:
- CH 53
Support:
- Fuchs Wildcat V4 (IR guided SPAAG prototype)
Infantry:
- Fallschirmjäger
Tanks:
- Super M48 (prototype)
Recon:
- BGS with Sonderwagen 2 (20mm cannon)
Vehicle:
- Begleitpanzer 57 (prototype)
Aircraft:
- F-4F (Peace Rhine with 4x AIM-9L + 2 AGM 65)

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