My suggestions for the Bundeswehr in Wargame: Red Dragon

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Mikeboy
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Re: My suggestions for the Bundeswehr in Wargame: Red Dragon

Postby Mikeboy » Fri 21 Mar 2014 03:41

[EUG]MadMat wrote:As shown above, the Blincide was used by the BGS (yet, not Heimatschützen indeed), and the very point of reservists ingame is to give them obsolete armement. Going this way, French Réservistes should have the standard LRAC, S-Korean ones a LAW, E-German ones a RPG-7, ... That is not their point ingame, so they will stick to obsolete weapons.


There are already 2 reservists in game using the LAW though.

German infantry could do with a buff to be honest. The faction's a bit weak at the moment. That buff to the reserves and the suggested G41 for the PanzerGrens would be warranted in my opinion.

Lord Helmchen wrote:I just got it why it cannot be given to the Heimatschützen as it was produced in the 80s


That's a shame if true.

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Re: My suggestions for the Bundeswehr in Wargame: Red Dragon

Postby Lord Helmchen » Fri 21 Mar 2014 03:43

Flieger wrote:Or the Super Bazooka, if you desperately want old weapons. ;)

IDK but it would be so funny so tbh I'm all in favour of it :lol:
Mikeboy wrote:That's a shame if true.

German Wiki says: "Bei MBB wurde zum Ende der 1980er-Jahre versucht, diese Probleme auszuräumen. Das Ergebnis war die leichte Panzerabwehrwaffe Armbrust."¹
¹ URL: <http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armbrust_(Panzerabwehrwaffe)>
Translation: "MBB tried to the end of the 1980s to solve this problem. The result was the light Antitankweapon Armbrust"
So yeah, unfortunatly not for the Heimatschützen.
Maybe if there will be a Jäger 90s variant it could be given to them but not for the Heimatschützen.
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Re: My suggestions for the Bundeswehr in Wargame: Red Dragon

Postby QUAD » Fri 21 Mar 2014 09:05

I can't believe the past two pages have been a heated debate (smackdown?) on reservist AT weapons. FRG is evidently in a great spot, if that's what all the talk is about.

The entire US faction needs a massive retooling of their rifle squads-and based on what I've seen, RD's a buff- and you guys are battling over a bazooka for a reserve that would never in a million years deployed in Asia.
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Re: My suggestions for the Bundeswehr in Wargame: Red Dragon

Postby Kin-Luu » Fri 21 Mar 2014 10:39

[EUG]MadMat wrote:Pretty much my point about your selected comparision.
Just got the M110 really? What about the M109G[...]3, which was the subject of torrents of rants when the closed beta started ... and is now considered OP by the very German players, on this very same thread.And the funniest part is: but for the RoF display bug fixed (for all artillery gun) it hasn't changed since the start of the beta! :lol:


I want to clarify something:

The M109GE3A1s CARD is overpowered, the unit itself is not.

IMHO it should be 4 guns per card, not 6. This would make it comparable to the AuF1 - worse reload, but better availability and price.
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Re: My suggestions for the Bundeswehr in Wargame: Red Dragon

Postby chema1994 » Fri 21 Mar 2014 12:08

my whishlist:
INF
Deckungsgruppe 90' with Bunkerfaust.
Heimatschützen should have a proper Bundeswehr RPG as said before. Maybe the PzF-44 (with reduced accuracy compared to the Jäger/Fallschirmjäger version)
Jäger '90 with G3A4 but no PzF 3, so they are specialized in urban combat but lack the heavy infantry AT weapons.
Unimog LKW: A transport for Jäger and other light infatry unit.

SUP
Panzerhaubitze 2000 would be a nice unit, but I understand why it wasn't included.
M110A2 Haubitze: In 1985 the M110 howitzers were upgraded to the A2 standard. The A2 version should replace the A0 or should be added as a new unit.

TNK

I wanna a L55 armed tank, but since the Leo 2A5 has an AP value of 24, I can imagine that the L55 is ingame.

REC
The Bundesgrenschutz could have their own vehicles. Those would be the Sonderwagen I or II (APC) and the Puma helicopter (the UH-1 is still fine but the Puma would add some variety to the BRD armory). Those are purely cosmetic changes.
The BGS should use the G1 (FN FAL), they changed to the G3 in some point but I think that G1 fits better in to the "militia" flavour.
PAH-2 Tiger: A full ATGM loadout would be better (and HOT-3, also for the french versions).

VEH
Jaguar 2/TOW 2 Enough said.

AIR
Already discussed to death.

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Re: My suggestions for the Bundeswehr in Wargame: Red Dragon

Postby Spielführer » Fri 21 Mar 2014 12:55

[EUG]MadMat wrote:
Spielführer wrote:That is what i mean by bending the things to your liking. Apart from the fact that the Bundeswehr never used the Blindicide, do you think the Heimatschützen would have used in 1990 those outdated weaponry? I understand your point, but this would also fit on other units. Since this does not happens, it is like a double standard, isn't it?


First, please say "hi" to BGS Blindicide:
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Another series here, I let the full URL so you can see the page's name "Schiessen mit Blindicide":
http://www.beim-alten-bgs.de/Zu_den_Kameradenseiten/Siegfried_Dietzel/Schiessen_mit__Blindicide/schiessen_mit__blindicide.html
Ok, let have us again a look an my quote. I make it bold! As Flieger stated, BGS is not the Bundeswehr. Maybe you should read and do not rant.
The Bundeswehr never got Blindicide and since there are the Territorials with LAW, I don't see what is the problem with giving the Heimatschützen their accurate armament of PzF44. It is not like the Heimatschützen would suddenly become op.

+1

Spielführer wrote:
You're the one bringing selected comparisions with France everytime, with a pretty clear bias understatement.

This is due to the fact, that (before the beta) a lot of stuff was unclear and even than not understandable.
(...)
Yep, like the Artillery as example. And the comparison is close related to the Eurokorps. Why should i compare W-Germany with another nation? So France received the Rafale, we the Iltis, France received CAESAR W-Germany the PzH M110, Germany lost Jagdkommando and gained MILAN F1/F2 and France (again a little bit better) the Milan F2A. I know you tried to justify it with the Airborne deck etc, but if you look at those examples, it is not far fetched that it looks weired.

Pretty much my point about your selected comparision.
Just got the M110 really? What about the M109G[...]3, which was the subject of torrents of rants when the closed beta started ... and is now considered OP by the very German players, on this very same thread.
And the funniest part is: but for the RoF display bug fixed (for all artillery gun) it hasn't changed since the start of the beta! :lol:

You've got Itlis? Why compare it to the Rafale when france got P4 PC & P4 MILAN, so both nations has its complement of recon/command/ATGM jeeps ... for Airborne & Motorized decks, indeed.
Well, i think France received some prestige objects and in the end more toys than Germany. At the End France got more new units, especially since France also received Jeeps e.g. while good toys on Germany are missing (except PAH-2 and 2A5) while even the Stats from the Leclerc...well

German players kept complaining in ALB about air defense: Germany now has Roland 3, wheeled Raolnd 2, Stinger, Bo-105P/BSH, Gepard w/ Stinger.
The reason Germany complained about air defense in ALB was mainly (that is why the Gepard buff e.g. was implemented) was that you left out the MAIN FIGHTER from the Luftwaffe, the F4. The Starfighter was no Fighter Bomber as it should be and was since the 70s and so on. A lot of mistakes were done their. That is the reason why German players kept complaining! In fact in RD the Gepards should be buffed a bit, especially the Gepard A2 since it normally should be able to fire both simultaneously (Stinger+Gun) while e.g. a Tunguska could not. Also the main improvement was the FCS and the new Ammunition as stated also often before. Also the Luftwaffe is mediocre and their would be a lot of things that could have been done for it e.g. the F4 Series. Also the Tornado ECR is not good represented with its ELS.


France got, as IRL, two Tiger variants and Germany one. On the other hand, you've got the cluster MLRS and we don't while having the exact same launcher.
Ok, you got 2 Tigers, we only 1. Got it and reasonable like in RL. What about e.g. the Fuchs RASIT?`Ahh the Airborne-Deck thing.


You can turn your comparisions the way you want, I can do the same.
Like bending this to your liking. Recognized it before.

Now, whatever you think or claim, we're following a logic, and we don't give a damn about favorizing one country over another.
The problem is that this logic is not very transparent and followable. Thus imply kinda favorizing some countries, even if you do not. An example is the "ootf" thing. If you would really say it is ootf, it should be ootf. But on the other hand, sometimes weapons/units whatever a dropped because they are ootf because of 1 year or 2 and sometimes units are in that are ootf for 13 years and are in. That is not kinda transparent.

Spielführer wrote:Also i do not know why you always feel offended or insulted.

Hell, why should I, when you keep insulting our intelligence and imparitality in every single post?
Every single post, ahh yes. :roll:
But you're right, I should not lose my temper. So, next time I see the faintest supposition of insinuation of bias or impartiality from you, I shall keep calm and just ban you once and for all for insult.
If you than feel strong petit bonhomme and ban paying people just because you can't stand critic, well than do so.
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Re: My suggestions for the Bundeswehr in Wargame: Red Dragon

Postby theBLUBinYou » Fri 21 Mar 2014 13:06

[EUG]MadMat wrote:Pretty much my point about your selected comparision.
Just got the M110 really? What about the M109G[...]3, which was the subject of torrents of rants when the closed beta started ... and is now considered OP by the very German players, on this very same thread.
And the funniest part is: but for the RoF display bug fixed (for all artillery gun) it hasn't changed since the start of the beta! :lol:

Can I laugh about this without being banned? :lol: By the very German players? You read one, I'll repeat that: one statement and you think this represents the majority of the German players? Uhm...nope. He even said, that the PzH itself is not overpowered, just the amount of them per card is questionable. In my eyes you have 2 or 3 too much per card but the unit itself is fine currently.

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Re: My suggestions for the Bundeswehr in Wargame: Red Dragon

Postby [EUG]MadMat » Fri 21 Mar 2014 13:25

theBLUBinYou wrote:Can I laugh about this without being banned? :lol: By the very German players? You read one, I'll repeat that: one statement and you think this represents the majority of the German players?

Not one, and from usually dire critics ... ;)
Spielführer wrote:
Kin-Luu wrote:Since you are here already...

What is the rationale for the price difference between the french and german Roland 3?

And is the german Artillery supposed to be so horribly overpowered?

Why do you think it is overpowered?


Flieger wrote:Maybe because the M109A3GA1 is essentially a Paladin for 80pt rather than 120pt. The only advantage of the Paladin is the direct fire option. So on paper it may look too cheap.

On the other hand, other units are overpriced, the old weaknesses are still there (if addressed a little by subtle means), and the balance is neither finished nor is it symmetrical.

Might not been a general trend, but just going from the "worst SPG" flame war to finally considering this very same weapon system might not be OP was worth reading ... and mentionning ... :)

Flieger wrote:
[EUG]MadMat wrote:First, please say "hi" to BGS Blindicide


He knows. Everybody does. That is why no one complained about the BGS Blindicide. BGS and Bundeswehr however are two separate entities, not even under the same federal ministry. There is no way a Heimatschutzbrigade would have operated that thing.

I stand corrected.
Not about he fact that BGS & BW are separate entities, but I thought the critics were that W-Germany never used the Blindicide at all. I know, and mentionned it somewhere in a previous post, that we are well aware of the fact that the Blindicide was not used by the Heimatschützen.
It doesn't change the fact that Reserve/Militia units are purposedly armed with obsolete weapons.

Spielführer wrote:If you than feel strong petit bonhomme and ban paying people just because you can't stand critic, well than do so.

You're paying for a product, not for any right to come here and throw accusations at us.
Besides, this is France ... :twisted:

We can stand critics. Paying customers or not. What we can't stand are repeated accusations despite repeated explanations. You can disagree, you can't reapeatedly call us liars.
But you'll won't see that message for a week now ...

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Re: My suggestions for the Bundeswehr in Wargame: Red Dragon

Postby theBLUBinYou » Fri 21 Mar 2014 13:39

[EUG]MadMat wrote:
theBLUBinYou wrote:Can I laugh about this without being banned? :lol: By the very German players? You read one, I'll repeat that: one statement and you think this represents the majority of the German players?

Not one, and from usually dire critics ... ;)

Who wrote that? Again Kin-Luu... I would not make the mistake to estimate the opinion of a single person to be the opinion of the whole German community. There are better SPH like the 2S19 oder the CAESAR. The only thing that is broken is the high availability per card and maybe the price.

[EUG]MadMat wrote:I stand corrected.
Not about he fact that BGS & BW are separate entities, but I thought the critics were that W-Germany never used the Blindicide at all. I know, and mentionned it somewhere in a previous post, that we are well aware of the fact that the Blindicide was not used by the Heimatschützen.
It doesn't change the fact that Reserve/Militia units are purposedly armed with obsolete weapons.

Well, we bought enough "upgraded" weapons to equip our reserve/Heimatschutzbrigaden with good weapons. IIRC we never stated, that the Blindicide was not in use by any German safety devices. The BGS had them IRL as it does ingame. So I am fine with that. But I think the reserve units should have the equipment they really used.

[EUG]MadMat wrote:We can stand critics. Paying customers or not. What we can't stand are repeated accusations despite repeated explanations. You can disagree, you can't reapeatedly call us liars.
But you'll won't see that message for a week now ...

Well...he can see the message, he is just unable to write an response :lol: But sometimes I have to agree with him, there are some...lets say suspicious units ingame and others not. Even if they'd be more reasonable.
And your video is "private" and I can not watch it :?

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Re: My suggestions for the Bundeswehr in Wargame: Red Dragon

Postby Bryan » Fri 21 Mar 2014 13:56

Please don't ban me. :)
I feel that because Wargame aims to be authentic. Wouldn't be giving fictitious or never operated weapons to units taking a step away from the direction and the biggest selling point of the game?
I mean, SARPAC as France's ALB's main AT is kinda......weird....I would not want anything like that again.

It does take away the immersion IMO.

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