Supplies in the new game

goodman528
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Supplies in the new game

Postby goodman528 » Sat 11 Jan 2014 17:01

Played Wargame since first week of EE release. I feel the old supplies system encouraged too many trucks on the map. But the new system penalize people who bring FOB because they take a deck slot and 75pts for the benefit of the team.

Here's what I propose:

1) A single free indestructible FOB (or supplies area) for the entire team, with around 10k supplies per player.

2) A single player can be voted the supplies manager. When something enters the FOB area, he can decide whether or not it gets supplied or not.

3) The supplies trucks and helos for each player can remain as it is now.

4) Empty supplies units and empty transport units can evac from map same way as planes evac now. 20 supplies are added to the FOB for each point worth of unit evac-ed this way.

5) Unit cards need to provide info on how many points of supplies are needed to resupply this unit. E.G. T-64BV might say 500 supplies to refill all ammo, 200 to refill all fuel, 1800 to repair all HP. For T-72B it might say 280/120/900. That would provide a very good reason to use a range of even under powered units. (Yes the info need to be for full refills, not per missile or per HP, otherwise you can't easily compare units)

I hope supplies and logistic considerations can become much more strategic and fun in the new game. Anyone support this idea or want to add or change it in some way?

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trotskygrad
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Re: Supplies in the new game

Postby trotskygrad » Sat 11 Jan 2014 17:13

goodman528 wrote:Played Wargame since first week of EE release. I feel the old supplies system encouraged too many trucks on the map. But the new system penalize people who bring FOB because they take a deck slot and 75pts for the benefit of the team.

Here's what I propose:

1) A single free indestructible FOB (or supplies area) for the entire team, with around 10k supplies per player.

2) A single player can be voted the supplies manager. When something enters the FOB area, he can decide whether or not it gets supplied or not.

3) The supplies trucks and helos for each player can remain as it is now.

4) Empty supplies units and empty transport units can evac from map same way as planes evac now. 20 supplies are added to the FOB for each point worth of unit evac-ed this way.

5) Unit cards need to provide info on how many points of supplies are needed to resupply this unit. E.G. T-64BV might say 500 supplies to refill all ammo, 200 to refill all fuel, 1800 to repair all HP. For T-72B it might say 280/120/900. That would provide a very good reason to use a range of even under powered units. (Yes the info need to be for full refills, not per missile or per HP, otherwise you can't easily compare units)

I hope supplies and logistic considerations can become much more strategic and fun in the new game. Anyone support this idea or want to add or change it in some way?


supplies manager seems like a bad idea. What if a noob is the supply manager? What if the supply manager doesn't like you?

and what is wrong with destructable FOBs?

I agree with the truck evacing though.

instead of "per full refill" I think having a resupply cost in each weapon's stat per round would make more sense. Oftentimes (for example, with hinds) I find my MG being full and my rockets and ATGMs totally depleted, while still at full health.
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Bluebreaker
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Re: Supplies in the new game

Postby Bluebreaker » Sat 11 Jan 2014 18:27

trotskygrad wrote:and what is wrong with destructable FOBs?.
Oh nothing at all! other than being easily killed by blind rocket arty

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Re: Supplies in the new game

Postby Vicnaire » Sat 11 Jan 2014 18:35

I mentioned the transport "evac"ing of sorts in another thread so I am already on board with that.

I doubt it would happen but if there for some reason were indestructible FOB's preset for teams you could probably have a game mode called capture the FOB, it may sound silly but over all of the 10v10's and other matches I have played I have encountered loads of recon and troops behind my lines and I have snuck plenty into theirs as well. So I mean even a small objective based game mode could be made of it, unlikely I know but a possibility.
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Re: Supplies in the new game

Postby raventhefuhrer » Sat 11 Jan 2014 19:41

The Supply Manager idea is horrible, as it forces one player into a micro-intensive and ultimately useless role. Besides, if one player on your team has invested all of his points in MLRS and long range artillery, what are you going to do? Tell him to go and -bleep- himself and make him doubly useless because now he doesn't have supplies?

I also don't think the single FOB is a good idea. Where will it be located? In any map where there are two starting zones for one team, the lone FOB will be inconvenient and inaccessible for the person furthest away, let alone on a 10v10.

The other suggestions are fine. I think that in general I'd want FOBs to be less costly - more like 50 points or even have the first one be free or almost free. That way you make FOBs and supply management a key part of the game without heavily advantaging players who choose to go without one so they have more power in the early game rush while planning to leech supplies from allies later on.

A fourth button on the FOB (and supply vehicles for that matter) next to Ammo, Fuel, Spare Parts called 'Resupply Allies' that you can toggle on and off would be good too.
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panzersaurkrautwefer
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Re: Supplies in the new game

Postby panzersaurkrautwefer » Sat 11 Jan 2014 19:56

I'd be down for:

1. Scaling FOB cost. First one? Cheap as free. Fifth one? Well. That's just going to be two less T80Us you have at the start.

2. Truck/supply chopper evac. As yeah they clutter the map lots.

3. Possible corollary to point 2, evaced supply vehicles slowly regenerate. You still have to pay for them all over again though. Additionally, a toggle on supply vehicles to allow them to resupply a FOB would be nice (so you could say, use a card of CH-47s to resupply your FOB as they recharge, while you use a different card of supply vehicles to actually take it from the FOB forward).

I recognize the last point might enable artillery spammers, but if you still have to buy more supplies to top off your FOB, and destroyed supply vehicles don't come back, it'll make it a bit easier to counter than if the FOB simply regenerated at such a rate.
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ch3cooh
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Re: Supplies in the new game

Postby ch3cooh » Sat 11 Jan 2014 20:10

Yeah sure, electing a "supply manager" every match will make the game better.
If you don't trust your pals enough, they probably will all vote for themselves anyway...

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Re: Supplies in the new game

Postby goodman528 » Sun 12 Jan 2014 04:54

The main purpose of the supply manager is to stop arty spamming from draining the entire team's FOB. In too many 10v10s I see a new player buy 12x MRLS or 18x 203mm and 155mm arty and nothing else. This is not helpful to the team. In fact the team would benefit a lot more if all of these things are destroyed and he quit the game, then there is more supplies in the FOB for others and higher points income. With a supply manager, you don't need to cluster bomb your team mates anymore, just refuse him supplies and hope he will use some other units for a change.

If supply manager is not doing a good job, start a team vote and vote him out. This kind of voting has been part of multiplayer FPS games for a long time now, I think it's time team based RTS also adopt it.

If supply manager doesn't like you, and only you, and your team doesn't want to vote him out. 1) You should stop arty spamming. 2) Move your arty out of the supply zone! Artillery should always be on the move, and always supplied by your trucks or helos. It's absurd to have all those self propelled artillery sitting next to a FOB and never moving all game. There is a reason why the military spent so much money developing arty that moves. 3) You only want to refill your Mi-26 for those stranded 16x T-64A on the frontlines? But the top brass prefer to give the supplies to the Air Defense forces instead? This is giving you a more realistic experience! 4) [possible case of cyber bullying] Report any abuse, then quit the room and join another, there's no point wasting your time and getting yourself worked up by random people on the internet.

If you are supplies manager, do you need starcraft pro micro? Every minute or two, you just go to the FOB zone, drag select the units you want to resupply and click resupply, then drag select the units you want to refuse supplies to and click refuse. So in the FOB supplies area, there will be 3 indicators above each unit to show: 1) Supplies approved for this unit 2) Supplies refused for this unit 3) Awaiting decision from supplies manager. I think if the supplies manager have APM (actions per minute) of above 30, he should be able to allocate 6 APM to this task and be able to do a good job.

When I say indestructible FOB or area, I prefer area, because the FOB as a unit never really made much sense to me other than as a game play abstraction. It would be preferable if at the beginning of the game the team just votes on which of the start zones is the resupply zone. This would also encourage people to devote more resources to defending that zone. I have too often seen floods of special forces capturing all rear area zones and no one reacting to it for 10-20 mins. Also FOBs getting destroyed by blind counter artillery fire is very annoy.

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panzersaurkrautwefer
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Re: Supplies in the new game

Postby panzersaurkrautwefer » Sun 12 Jan 2014 06:00

I think it's more efficient to have each player responsible for their own supplies. A "supply allies" checkbox on the FOB keeps it on the individual player, and keeps away from the supply manager role which could be abused (it's 10 vs 10, and the supplies all flow only to the same five guys from the same clan because they're "better" than you are), or just not working (the supply manager is up to his eyeballs in the other team. He's too busy to worry about supplies because he just lost a few dozen tanks, and APCs are rushing through what used to be his front line).

If each player can chose to share, or not share their supplies, it's fairly easy, and much more organic. If I like my team, and we're about to do one last push to win the game, then supplies for all! If there's a swarm of MRLSes moving to my FOB, then only I get to use my supplies. There's simply no need to make it more complex than that.

Caveat;

Well maybe. If there was a "share with all" "share with players XXX YYYY and ZZZ" and "share with all option" that might be perfect as long as the UI wasn't too dodgy. There's a chance I want to help my friends, but not the artillery spammer. Additionally perhaps have those settings for each FOB, so I could have one open for people who need bullets, but keep one for myself.

All the same inventing a "supply manager" role is just not required, or really fun. It's like having a Fire Direction Center player who deconflicts all the artillery and aviation, authorizing only strikes and barrages to prevent wasteful shooting/suicide airstrikes. No one wants to have their team lose because they have an idiot who can't manage supplies, or spend half the round trying to vote him out.

Addendum:

Being able to evac and restock supply units really seems like it's the answer to lots of these problems. It encourages keeping supply vehicles safe, you no longer have useless trucks just hanging out because you're out of supplies, and if you keep your supply trucks safe, you'll be supplied for the whole game.
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Re: Supplies in the new game

Postby bobjoeharris » Sun 12 Jan 2014 06:10

The supply manager seems like a bad idea, because the 'vote' options in many games are always annoying and a lot of times people don't even vote. I think the fobs should stay how they are but the 'evac' truck/helo idea is cool.
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