The one thing that make REDFOR so weak

[Mitchverr]

Since when are you ever in an engagement where you fire off more than say, 3 missiles?

Many many times.

IE a 3v3/4v4 full scale assault.

[josstwc]

The Tor has considerably better anti Helo range than any other radar AA save the Hawk PIPII, it also does more damage than the roland and can 1 short Cobras. I think the price is good.

Indeed the only SAMs that outrange the TOR vs Helo's are the Tunguska, Crotale, Chapparal A3 and ADATS.

On that note though I do think a key weakness of REDFOR is a lack of long range anti helicopter non radar AA as this makes the nato helicopters like the Tigers and Longbows particularly hard to deal with. The fact the Tunguska is not F&F unlike NATO equivalents makes it particularly poor at killing NATO helicopters in comparison.

Out of interest though, why is the Crotale not a radar AA piece when in reality it uses tracking Radar?

[yacoub]

I'm fine with the asymmetric balancing of anti-air units. About the only time it is really an issue is if you specialize your deck, which basically ruins it outside of Support specialization, or the red dragons but they can sort of make up for their weak AA in other categories. Plus they just need to make sure at least one teammate is running a better nation or coalition deck with better AA units.

[CornProducts]

And let's not forget the CSSR STROP 2. Non-radar guns with 2800m anti-heli range + 4 iglas + 150 km/h and 100 offroad speed. I have often met a heli rusher at his destination and watched as my STROP's alternated between gun and missile to ravage a dozen helis.

I'm also a fan of the OSA-AKM or whatever the other nations call it. Good accuracy. tolerable range, and again, great mobility. Could literally drive circles around a Hawk offroad. As a CSSR player I feel my AA is covered once I throw in the MiG-21 MF.

The other nations of NSWP have good options too. Just because it doesn't come with a 80 point pricetag doesn't mean it is junk. The Fasta for East Germany is deceptively effective, plus you have FJB with the guts to down air units with just the humble Strela 2M. Poland has cheaper yet still effective Mi-2 URS and the mighty Sokol.

AA coverage comes in many different flavors. Granted, it would be easier if all I had to do was sit 3 Hawk's behind the front with supplies and not worry about air, but REDFOR is not hurting for AA coverage.

[admiral9]

ADATS is good AA now? (Mind blown)

[Mitchverr]

ADATS is good AA now? (Mind blown)

Vs choppers.

[admiral9]

ADATS is good AA now? (Mind blown)

Vs choppers.

WAT?

No not joking both in ALB and RD my adats have never succeeded in killing a helicopter in less then 6 missiles.
I am litterally incapable of understanding how the ADATS is good AA i use it as canada cause its all i got but its not someting one can rely on, and the ground ATGM capability makes it as expensive as the TOR, that thing is an amazing ATGM but it feels like the AA is its second roll maybe third.

[Sarvik]

Soviet/NSWP main AA disadvantage is lack of 5 HE Manpads. Vehicle section isn't that bad although there are also blatantly overpriced ones like Osa AKM.

[Mitchverr]

No not joking both in ALB and RD my adats have never succeeded in killing a helicopter in less then 6 missiles.
I am litterally incapable of understanding how the ADATS is good AA i use it as canada cause its all i got but its not someting one can rely on, and the ground ATGM capability makes it as expensive as the TOR, that thing is an amazing ATGM but it feels like the AA is its second roll maybe third.

I have mine kill repeatedly, maybe your just cursed

You also get marksman

[admiral9]

No not joking both in ALB and RD my adats have never succeeded in killing a helicopter in less then 6 missiles.
I am litterally incapable of understanding how the ADATS is good AA i use it as canada cause its all i got but its not someting one can rely on, and the ground ATGM capability makes it as expensive as the TOR, that thing is an amazing ATGM but it feels like the AA is its second roll maybe third.

I have mine kill repeatedly, maybe your just cursed

You also get marksman

Well... the cursed theory makes sense....
You could ask quake i am not really a person who has luck with his wargaming, its why i never try and talk too much about balance cause my experience is probably worse off then most.