Li Jian '90

ubermensche
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Li Jian '90

Postby ubermensche » Tue 8 Apr 2014 19:32

So after all that whining about the Fallschirmjaeger, I think that I'm allowed to start this thread.

Li JIan '90, and to a quite an extent its Spetsnaz RPO counterpart is absolutely broken. Their flamethrower rocket launchers make every single city and forest absolutely impregnable. Last night I saw 2-4 squads of Li Jian completely clear the center city in Tropic Thunder. That's 40 Fjr '90 and almost twice as much riflemen. And it happens in every city and forest. Pretty much the summoning of this thing means automatic death to all NATO infantry.

"But you can counter it with tanks". Bullsh1t. You know the golden rule of Wargame is to not send tanks and armored vehicles into cities. Oh and the Li Jian can also kill light armored vehicles.

So yeah, I think you guys should really nerf that thing. Here are my suggestions:
1) Utterly remove that thing from the Li Jian and the Spetsnaz and give it to an engineer unit (a Fanghuabing '90 of the sorts), like the Saperzy '85
2) Halve the payload, from 12 to 6. And 8 to 4 for the Spetsnaz
3) Keep the same stats and payload but only 1 card of 6 trained and 4 elite available, so they can't be just spammed to every single CQB area.

And sorry, no gifs.

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frostypooky
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Re: Li Jian '90

Postby frostypooky » Tue 8 Apr 2014 19:36

As a RD player, I would have to say these are really kind of situational, but so are all infantry. I would agree that they would still be a decent buy with halved ammo, though.

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elmoking
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Re: Li Jian '90

Postby elmoking » Tue 8 Apr 2014 19:38

Spets and Li Jian can be countered by NATO units which use SMGs, if you can get your way within 82m. In cities its quite possible, in forests basically no. Gurkhas are a good match for Spets in cities with heavy micro. But I agree they should be nerfed. Tbh, I think instagib weapons should be taken out of the game, perhaps Spets and Li Jian can be given 2 MGs or something to compensate.
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F-22
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Re: Li Jian '90

Postby F-22 » Tue 8 Apr 2014 19:43

That's why NATO has slightly superior bombers, cheap napalm tanks/APC's, and multiple cards of assault engineers, and the new fire support squads

Sometimes you need to think out of the box to counter units, it's like sending your T-72BU to take on an M1A2 head on, it just won't work unless you use other things at your disposal.

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Re: Li Jian '90

Postby SeabeeDaddy » Tue 8 Apr 2014 19:45

Best way to deal with any infantry like the Li Jian 90' is helicopters I've found. Even some Huey's with a LMG on the door does the trick. And if you're defending the town, fly em over and just let into then with the MG. Stubs them then kills them in short order. Of course if you have a mini gun that's all the better.

EDIT: I say no to nerfing them. They're very situational. All infantry die just as quickly to HE and Napalm...

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Re: Li Jian '90

Postby Spitzenhund » Tue 8 Apr 2014 19:47

Li Jian '90 and Fallschirmjager 90' are not comparable.

Fallchrimjager 90' were powerful but for the wrong reasons, they murdered infantry and could still defeat tanks/apc/ifv/anything that was on the ground.

On the other hand Li Jian '90 and Spetznaz trade their anti-tank capability in order to be good in cities. They still die just as easily and they cant even fight tanks so they are mostly useless outside of cities. Isn't there something called asymmetrical balance in this game? Can't PACT have their really good anti-infantry infantry while Blufor have their really good everything else.

plata
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Re: Li Jian '90

Postby plata » Tue 8 Apr 2014 19:48

F-22 wrote:That's why NATO has slightly superior bombers, cheap napalm tanks/APC's, and multiple cards of assault engineers, and the new fire support squads

Sometimes you need to think out of the box to counter units, it's like sending your T-72BU to take on an M1A2 head on, it just won't work unless you use other things at your disposal.


Only americans have assault engineers and flamer vehicles. Fire support teams have been nerfed, Airplanes are not cost effective if the enemy has established a solid AA-network.

SeabeeDaddy wrote:EDIT: I say no to nerfing them. They're very situational. All infantry die just as quickly to HE and Napalm...


Same is true for Fallschirmjäger90 and they were nerfed anyway
Last edited by plata on Tue 8 Apr 2014 19:50, edited 1 time in total.

edthebeast
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Re: Li Jian '90

Postby edthebeast » Tue 8 Apr 2014 19:50

Are these guys better than spetz? If so SPETZNAZ AND LI JIAN OP PLZ NERF NAO UNSTOPPABLE KILLERS
The only (probably) sane player to take a card of Akulas voluntarily..... UNTIL RED DRAGON!

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Ressk
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Re: Li Jian '90

Postby Ressk » Tue 8 Apr 2014 19:50

I found them not too big of an issue for South Korean mechanized inf.

I sent in two 40 groups vs a 40 and a 20 group of Li Jian. Started off bad but i drove my KFV25's into the streets to support, as well as my 2 K1 tanks, and started absolutely destroying them. the fire support given by my vehicles was insane! ended up with one group at 12 and the other around 25, lost 2 KFV25's, no damage to the K1's.

of course, 2 minutes later a massive swarm of ZTZ-59's arrived, but that was fun :D

the stigma of not sending IFV's/AFV's/MBT's into towns is wrong WHEN you have infantry in the town as well.
Unsupported tanks ofc are just hunks of metal waiting to die :P

also SK have assault engineers and recoiless support inf. and i think a flamer vehicle too, but i didnt bring it.

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Rorschach
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Re: Li Jian '90

Postby Rorschach » Tue 8 Apr 2014 19:51

plata wrote:Same was true for Fallschirmjäger90 and they were nerfed anyway


No, because the Fallschirmjágers had an excellent rifle, excellent MG, and excellent anti tank weapon. They could crush 99% of infantry, and, at close range, 99% of vehicles.

Meanwhile, the Spets will wilt at anything with armour.
A brilliant plan from the dirtiest euro-hippie: get US players to pay me for a game that I then show them how much their military sucks so I can feel better about being a communist.

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