Soviet Ka-52 Stealth reduce

User avatar
Scharnberg
Master Sergeant
Posts: 152
Joined: Wed 22 May 2013 11:17
Contact:

Re: Soviet Ka-52 Stealth reduce

Postby Scharnberg » Wed 30 Apr 2014 14:08

Hidden Gunman wrote:
Scharnberg wrote:While im all in all is okay with the nerf of the stealth of the Ka-52 since its kinda out of Red Dragon timeframe, and it has to be suspected that the russian gear of the end of the Cold war proberly was abit lagging compared to gloryfired soviet reports.


Why?

Remember that the Soviets didn't have to talk stuff up to scam people to buy it, like the Western industrial-military complex does...they only had to scam the West into thinking they were bungling incompetents...and they were largely successful at doing so.


If you take much of the Soviet era stuff, many of the problems with the diffrent military stuff have not documentet, at least not for the common people (or maybe its just because i dont speak russian and therefor cant search for it in russian but i doubt it as most stuff these days can be found in English online.)
My point is as much as the Cold war was about haveing better techonoly it was as much and information war with alot of false information just take the star wars project the soviet thought it was real and worked for a long time - and the same goes the other way around the Soviets have also many times gloryfired their reports to make the West afraid, just take the Viktor Belenko case when he defected with a MiG-25. Before the West got there hands on the MiG-25 they thought it was a 100 times better than it was (it was built in too heavy materials which made its performance worse).

As i said it was and information war. If we just for fun take the Eurocopter Tiger. It has had serval problems which even made the german cancled their order of it at one time (because this is more or less after the Cold war more information have been revealed).

Again we can take the Ka-50 after it went into production Again it was found out that the russian made nightvision system had too many malfuntions so they bought a French made nightvision system for it.

You can look all of this up for yourself. But back to the point with this entire thread - Ka-52 should have a Little bit/very little better stealth ingame than Ka-50 to represent the better counter messures.
Pro Rege Et Grege

Seer7
Warrant Officer
Posts: 485
Joined: Tue 4 Jun 2013 07:26
Contact:

Re: Soviet Ka-52 Stealth reduce

Postby Seer7 » Wed 30 Apr 2014 15:40

I actually had a conversation with Xeno426 (an air marshal) about the Kamovs stealth abilities.

TL;DR they're not that stealthy, but the Tigers aren't that much stealthier than them. The main advantage of the Tigers is their SARIB passive vibration damping system, the impact of which is debatable, otherwise both have taken measures to minimise IR signatures and the like. The latter, by the way, is not uncommon on 'modern' helos from what I've gathered.

Babubudu's suggestion of buffing the Kamovs 'maneuverability' is an interesting suggestion and would be a good way to give the Ka-52 an edge considering it's highly specialised loadout.

In general, a global medium stealth buff for helos is doable but it's probably something that should have been tried in the beta phase. I don't see Eugen implementing such a big change after release, but maybe marshals can convince them otherwise.
Image
Image

User avatar
jonas165
Brigadier
Posts: 3109
Joined: Sun 13 Oct 2013 06:01
Contact:

Re: Soviet Ka-52 Stealth reduce

Postby jonas165 » Wed 30 Apr 2014 16:27

By the mechanics of stealth in game (making helicopters harder to spot, also visually), no helicopter should have stealth in th first place. It leads to wiered situations in which stealth helicopters hover over an open field and infantry units 1 km away can´t see them...because they have a reduced RCS. Speaking about this, as Xeno and many other sayed multiple times; there is nothing to justify the stealth rating in gameplay terms on Kamovs helicopters in this game. It´s gamey dicision to make the unit unique, and it should be removed. Both gameplay and authenticy would profit from this. Instead of stealth, I suggest to give helos ECM.
Image
Alpha release. Click signature for more

User avatar
Vasily Krysov
Colonel
Posts: 2671
Joined: Mon 2 Apr 2012 09:27

Re: Soviet Ka-52 Stealth reduce

Postby Vasily Krysov » Wed 30 Apr 2014 16:29

jonas165 wrote:By the mechanics of stealth in game (making helicopters harder to spot, also visually), no helicopter should have stealth in th first place. It leads to wiered situations in which stealth helicopters hover over an open field and infantry units 1 km away can´t see them...because they have a reduced RCS. Speaking about this, as Xeno and many other sayed multiple times; there is nothing to justify the stealth rating in gameplay terms on Kamovs helicopters in this game. It´s gamey dicision to make the unit unique, and it should be removed. Both gameplay and authenticy would profit from this. Instead of stealth, I suggest to give helos ECM.


I would agree with this.

User avatar
Scharnberg
Master Sergeant
Posts: 152
Joined: Wed 22 May 2013 11:17
Contact:

Re: Soviet Ka-52 Stealth reduce

Postby Scharnberg » Wed 30 Apr 2014 16:42

I would agree with giving helos ECM instead aswell but i dont think its posible within the engien.

Edit forgot dont xD
Last edited by Scharnberg on Wed 30 Apr 2014 16:56, edited 1 time in total.
Pro Rege Et Grege

Seer7
Warrant Officer
Posts: 485
Joined: Tue 4 Jun 2013 07:26
Contact:

Re: Soviet Ka-52 Stealth reduce

Postby Seer7 » Wed 30 Apr 2014 16:50

The problem with ECM, as I understand it, is that it affects everything, not just missiles. And it would also open the floodgates for other units to receive ECM, and I doubt Eugen has the patience for that.
Image
Image

ShanRevan
Second-Lieutenant
Posts: 813
Joined: Mon 10 Feb 2014 04:46
Contact:

Re: Soviet Ka-52 Stealth reduce

Postby ShanRevan » Wed 30 Apr 2014 16:52

The size value basically is ECM in function if not form, it just gives a muuuuuuuuch smaller bonus than planes get (increments in 5%).

edit; well close enough

User avatar
jonas165
Brigadier
Posts: 3109
Joined: Sun 13 Oct 2013 06:01
Contact:

Re: Soviet Ka-52 Stealth reduce

Postby jonas165 » Wed 30 Apr 2014 17:02

Yeah but technicly, helos could have size and ECM, with flares animated and everything.
Image
Alpha release. Click signature for more

shomu1
Major-General
Posts: 3973
Joined: Mon 29 Apr 2013 08:18
Contact:

Re: Soviet Ka-52 Stealth reduce

Postby shomu1 » Wed 30 Apr 2014 17:35

jonas165 wrote:Yeah but technicly, helos could have size and ECM, with flares animated and everything.


That would actually be awesome.
Image

IT IS FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

User avatar
Vasily Krysov
Colonel
Posts: 2671
Joined: Mon 2 Apr 2012 09:27

Re: Soviet Ka-52 Stealth reduce

Postby Vasily Krysov » Wed 30 Apr 2014 17:54

There's no point in having both size and ECM as size is an additive size to hit modifier and ECM is a negative multiplier. On the other hand, I'd almost be against ECM modifiers for helicopters as a dude shooting with the Mk.1 eyeball and the force should not be getting effected by ECM...

Return to “Wargame : Red Dragon”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Majestic-12 [Bot] and 30 guests