Requesting alittle help :/

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TheDemolitionmech
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Requesting alittle help :/

Postby TheDemolitionmech » Wed 30 Apr 2014 00:29

Hello. I just played an interesting game in ranked today in which I lost. I will put the link of the replay in this topic. In general I think it is safe to say that he rushed me pretty hard with cheap asian stuff. He was very agressive with everything, and sent things everywhere. I was actually also playing a red dragon deck in the match, but he was pushing so hard I had to keep buying his type of stuff and send it out as fast as I could.
Here is the replay - https://www.dropbox.com/s/xiokta0rgf3iy ... argamerpl2
Here is the deck I was using - tPEglsLzlEvhecojWgBMAXgXotIvBdc4QezBfdDgqaLgXiO5ZYT8qOS3o0UX5URLkFLStF1AixUcq8WYUFKC3LoiEwwXuDkhxxEaIBEs
Now my question is this, does anyone have any good tips or suggestions as to how to counter this strategy? :?: And also, don't hold back on telling me what I should have done and used from start to finish during the match.

McMacky
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Re: Requesting alittle help :/

Postby McMacky » Wed 30 Apr 2014 00:53

I'll take a look when I have the time. Props for asking for advice by the way. I think an unbiased opinion is one of the best ways to figure out your own strengths and faults.

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TheDemolitionmech
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Re: Requesting alittle help :/

Postby TheDemolitionmech » Wed 30 Apr 2014 01:31

Thank you very much McMacky.

Also, I would like to point out that I know everyone will spot my SU-27SK got picked right from the beginning. That was I big mistake and I just want to let people know that I do understand how that was a big punch in the face to me. I'd also like to explain my thinking at the time for bringing that out so early. What I have been experiencing during the beginning of games is that when you are having infantry fights for cities (typically in "choke points" or in the center of the map) people send out HE bombers (or napalm) and drop them right on your infantry to kill them quickly. I was doing this myself because its success rate was good in the fact that AA nets aren't really fully established in the beginning game, so you can keep doing it and win the early engagements. My thinking to counter this from happening to me was to buy a fighter to circle and pick off bombers trying to get to them. Then I got it killed by accident........oops :?

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raventhefuhrer
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Re: Requesting alittle help :/

Postby raventhefuhrer » Wed 30 Apr 2014 01:53

So I watched your reply, and had a few comments.

First of all, for a map that size you invested too heavily in units with narrow usage - TY-90's and an SU-27K. Nevermind that the SU-27K is a poor value for the money in any situation. This meant that you really lacked 'boots on the ground', so to speak. It's not that you played poorly, your opponent just played better and had a better set-up.

That said...your opponent was also kind of abusing overly cost effective, Red Dragon militia. 10 points for Juckwidae + their trucks are ridiculous. And then he was fast moving empty transports down roads to disrupt your CVs and rear areas. In my view, he went pretty try-hard and borderline exploitative with the militia - but it's ranked, what do you expect? You used a similar tactic, just not as well :lol:
My YouTube Channel is Raven Wargaming. Message me to request videos on certain topics.

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TheDemolitionmech
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Re: Requesting alittle help :/

Postby TheDemolitionmech » Wed 30 Apr 2014 02:31

raventhefuhrer wrote:So I watched your reply, and had a few comments.

First of all, for a map that size you invested too heavily in units with narrow usage - TY-90's and an SU-27K. Nevermind that the SU-27K is a poor value for the money in any situation. This meant that you really lacked 'boots on the ground', so to speak. It's not that you played poorly, your opponent just played better and had a better set-up.


That said...your opponent was also kind of abusing overly cost effective, Red Dragon militia. 10 points for Juckwidae + their trucks are ridiculous. And then he was fast moving empty transports down roads to disrupt your CVs and rear areas. In my view, he went pretty try-hard and borderline exploitative with the militia - but it's ranked, what do you expect? You used a similar tactic, just not as well :lol:


First point - I do agree with you there. I kind of thought that once I got the second reinforcement point I could flush all my stuff out then, but he came in a bit faster than I expected.

When i play ranked I do know that these tactics are common and normal. Also i dont think I "used a similar tactic" I had no intention of rushing with militia its just that he was coming at me so fast that I was buying a lot of stuff to try and hold so he would back off of me, which weakened funds so the only thing I was sending out was cheap garbage aswell. He is gaining ground so quickly on me that I didn't really have the best of options but to use cheap stuff

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Lemieux
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Re: Requesting alittle help :/

Postby Lemieux » Wed 30 Apr 2014 02:47

I think what stood out the most for me was your lack of IFVs, your lack of microing infantry to "dodge" incoming bombs, and of course your lack of AA.
Militia are a pain in the ass that much is certain, but they are very inefficient units for longer games. If they cannot take an area quicker than 5 minutes then the player using the militia will just run out of steam, and the losses sustained from spamming what is essentially a meat shield will catch up with him. I feel as if you you played rather well on the right hand side, perhaps owing to the spawn point. On the right you suffered from a soar lack of AA and direct fire support, and ultimately you suffered from harassment of CVs. If you could have protected your CVs then you perhaps could have still won the game in the long term.
At the start I think it is wise to stay away from heliborne infantry, and send only AA-helos. I would also look at using more IFVs than just getting standard BTRs, the ZSD-90 is amazing, as is the BTR-80A (perhaps too expensive in 1 vs 1 for the infantry it brings) and WZ-551 (In place of the Z-9 helos). The transports he used to harass you would have been shredded by IFVs :p

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TheDemolitionmech
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Re: Requesting alittle help :/

Postby TheDemolitionmech » Wed 30 Apr 2014 03:16

(To Lemieux)

Very interesting points you bring up that I never would have thought of. I will rethink my deck and my strategy to counter this from happening again. Thank you very much for taking a look.

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Re: Requesting alittle help :/

Postby Vhanlay » Wed 30 Apr 2014 15:26

Hey, i was your opponement on this game. I can give you my feelings about that (sorry for the english, not my native language).

First one, you have a deck pretty silmilar to mine, and like this one say:

You used a similar tactic, just not as well


With this deck u want to put pressure on, and then never release. For that i use a lot of cheap units. Why ? For the map control. That's the only things that matter.

So you go on the shokepoint, yes. Good point. But u forget to securise the space between shokepoint and your base/cv. So that's a free road for me. Like you said, u want to put a AA nets on. Like i did on my left, none of your chopper could pass, and a lot when u were trying tu push u couldn't. Why ? Because i have a lot's of units on the map, u really to take control of the map.

This lead us to your cv defence, yeah i think u can work that a little more. Look mine, i don't remenber u kill one.

I never put real AA on the map, that was a huge mistake of mine, and u use that well (i did the same ;-) ).

Put more recon. This will help you a lot.

Try working on these things.

I also think heli infantry are not really worth the use, maybe on other things than shokepoints, like for recon, or ambush on the ennemy land.

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sparouw
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Re: Requesting alittle help :/

Postby sparouw » Wed 30 Apr 2014 15:40

Didn't see the replay, but I know how Vhanlay plays.

And yes, you probably lack of IFV to counter the mass (in fact, it's the basis against spam).
As others say, starting with expensive units with a really specific use is really not a good idea (in fact, it's a risky bet).

And if I understand you well, you tried to use cheap stuff against cheap stuff. In fact, it's not a good idea as it seems. You better have to use good units (not to expensive, at least, in the beguining), with enought ROF to take care of a lot of spamed units before their come in close range.

To be honnest, you falled against a good player who's playing ranked 1v1 since WEE, so you have not to be "ashamed". Btw, he was trained among some of the best players since WEE, so, yes, it was a hard opponent :mrgreen:
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Spektre
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Re: Requesting alittle help :/

Postby Spektre » Wed 30 Apr 2014 16:24

by the way is DarrickS playin rd?
WTF?

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