[Now in Red Dragon] FINLAND

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Gonztah
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Re: [Coming to Red Dragon] FINLAND

Postby Gonztah » Mon 27 Jun 2016 13:32

Sleksa wrote:
--with a wildcard prototype of the infamous Leo1 hull with a T-72 turret meant for export into South America.



I believe this is what you're referring to. Would love to see it in-game.
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Mikeboy
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Re: [Coming to Red Dragon] FINLAND

Postby Mikeboy » Mon 27 Jun 2016 13:40

[EUG]MadMat wrote:
Mikeboy wrote:Charioteer's been confirmed, but will we see the Comet too?

A bit too old maybe ...


Yeah, I'm not at all trying to make WW2 armies possible between Yugoslav Shermans, Israeli M7 Priests and M3 half-tracks, Finnish Pz-IV, Stugs and Comets. Not at all *whistles innocently*.

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Tiera
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Re: [Coming to Red Dragon] FINLAND

Postby Tiera » Mon 27 Jun 2016 14:13

Gonztah wrote:
Sleksa wrote:
--with a wildcard prototype of the infamous Leo1 hull with a T-72 turret meant for export into South America.



I believe this is what you're referring to. Would love to see it in-game.


It's an enigmatic project, but then again so are all 1990's FDF prototypes.
The list of potential non-classified sources about Finnish T-72 upgrades consists of three people, who have at one point or another talked about their personal involvement to the upgrade program at public. Luckily one of them, a retired everstiluutnantti, has been most helpful :twisted:

Mikeboy wrote:
[EUG]MadMat wrote:
Mikeboy wrote:Charioteer's been confirmed, but will we see the Comet too?

A bit too old maybe ...


Yeah, I'm not at all trying to make WW2 armies possible between Yugoslav Shermans, Israeli M7 Priests and M3 half-tracks, Finnish Pz-IV, Stugs and Comets. Not at all *whistles innocently*.


AFAIK Syria bought some of the still-running Finnish PZ IVs just in time to get them destroyed, so the Israelis have already won that round :mrgreen:
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Re: [Coming to Red Dragon] FINLAND

Postby varis » Mon 27 Jun 2016 16:54

Sleksa wrote:There were essentially 3 Tiers of upgrades planned for the upgraded T-72M1 with varying degrees of cost and performance (T-72M1 FINMOD is the only name I've found for the program)


Hmm now here's the first enticing reason to include upgraded T-72 to the finnish deck - 3 new tiers of T-72 variants! I guess Romania (and Yugoslavia) would be the True and Rightful nations to run upgraded T-72 trees, though, as they had plenty of rolling stock to prove it while in case of Finland we're talking a hypothetical scenario based on plans that certainly WOUlD have been followed through IF the USSR wouldn't have suddenly collapsed. (Though Eugen kind of wrote this scenario already and wouldn't be a first, but whatever :roll: )

All depends on how far Eugen wants to go to make FINLAND the Mother of All Decks (and sell more copies of DLC #3 than Stellaris and HOI4 combined) or if they'll just put in sissi, sturmi & Kekkonen and leave it at that.
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Re: [Coming to Red Dragon] FINLAND

Postby Sleksa » Mon 27 Jun 2016 17:32

varis wrote:
Sleksa wrote:There were essentially 3 Tiers of upgrades planned for the upgraded T-72M1 with varying degrees of cost and performance (T-72M1 FINMOD is the only name I've found for the program)


Hmm now here's the first enticing reason to include upgraded T-72 to the finnish deck - 3 new tiers of T-72 variants! I guess Romania (and Yugoslavia) would be the True and Rightful nations to run upgraded T-72 trees, though, as they had plenty of rolling stock to prove it while in case of Finland we're talking a hypothetical scenario based on plans that certainly WOUlD have been followed through IF the USSR wouldn't have suddenly collapsed. (Though Eugen kind of wrote this scenario already and wouldn't be a first, but whatever :roll: )

With the T-72 FINMOD it's not really hypothetical, the specifications on what the upgrade needed to be like are mostly known, even the prototypes were built and tested in different configurations, of which the French engine pack footage I posted earlier. The problem here is that none of the specs have been released to public, so the actual end make of the thing is largely guesswork on which ones FDF favoured and which packages would've been approved and in what quantities
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varis
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Re: [Coming to Red Dragon] FINLAND

Postby varis » Mon 27 Jun 2016 20:21

In that case, let me quote one of my very favourite politicians:

ALL OF 'EM, ANY OF 'EM
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Re: [Coming to Red Dragon] FINLAND

Postby guynumber7 » Wed 29 Jun 2016 02:55

Finland will get APILAS right?
youtube.com/guynumber7

wargame vids shall be put up

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Re: [Coming to Red Dragon] FINLAND

Postby orcbuster » Wed 29 Jun 2016 02:58

guynumber7 wrote:Finland will get APILAS right?


Yup, well within timeframe.
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Re: [Coming to Red Dragon] FINLAND

Postby Sleksa » Wed 29 Jun 2016 11:11

guynumber7 wrote:Finland will get APILAS right?


There won't be any shortage on antitank weaponry on Finnish side.

Historically Finland probably hoarded one of the biggest cold-war stocks of them. Within Eugen's timeframe, Finland had acquired the following systems:

Vickers vigilant (light inf atgm-equivalent with penetration equal to Swingfire), SS-11, Konkurs, Fagot, I-TOW, TOW-2, Apilas, several versions of the LAW (75 & 88 were most prominent), Domestic version of the RPG-7, curiosities like EFP-mines with 100mm of penetration meant to plow through side armors of tanks, HEAT ammo for recoilless rifles with 550mm of solid steel penetration coupled with an anti-ERA spike on the nose and so on. Besides the TOW's, The hardest hitting system that would also likely fit within the time-frame as a prototype was the Spike-MR. The program to choose a new ATGM was started around '91, but frozen for a long time due to both the ongoing recession as well as the defense budget being drained by a historically massive arms deal that wouldnt have happened with USSR continuing to live 'n breathe (64 Hornets instead of the original 20 or so).

Apilas itself was delivered from 1987 onwards, and was in widespread use in many different infantry units by 1990+.
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Re: [Coming to Red Dragon] FINLAND

Postby Tiera » Wed 29 Jun 2016 13:48

Sleksa wrote: Domestic version of the RPG-7


If you refer to 55 S 55, it was a domestic design based on WW2-era research:
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Major Ilmari Liikanen was the early pioneer of Finnish recoilless rifle research, and after the war he and his associates established Raikka Oy. Once they received government funding after a long hiatus in the 1950s, this company was able to develop the two domestic-made antitank weapon systems for the Finnish Army at record speed, since both weapons had already existing blueprints.

The 55 S 55 proved to be rather versatile weapon.With 234 launchers per brigade, it was one of the key weapon systems of Cold War era FDF, used for both anti-tank and direct-fire HE fire support.
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