Get rid of Fuel

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Mobius
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Re: Get rid of Fuel

Postby Mobius » Sat 3 May 2014 23:52

CandyMan wrote:Guess what guys, Pact tank designers made their tanks fuel efficient lean mean fighting machines to support their mobile warfare attack doctrines. Nato in all their infinite wisdom made their tanks heavy, heavily armored with low fuel economy because of their defensive doctrine. It's realistic and adds a layer of depth to wargame few other RTS's can claim. Seems some people are just to lazy to provide logistical support.

Well that's a nice sweeping statement.
French tanks have good autonomy, German tanks have good autonomy (and look at the number of nations with Leo 1s), Challengers 1 and 2 have decent autonomy, M1s (except the M1A2) and the K1 have decent autonomy as well.

The only tanks that have bad autonomy are the Chieftains, M60, the older tanks (M48 & co) and the Japanese tanks... Which isn't part of NATO.

As for the "too lazy to provide logistic support", as I mentionned earlier, Japan has crippingly low autonomy on its MBTs (300km on the Kyu Maru) and a crappy logistic section to go along. It's not just a lazyness problem.
I have really no idea why Eugen didn't add a logistic Ch-47 for Japan at least, since they bought them in 1995.

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Hartmann
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Re: Get rid of Fuel

Postby Hartmann » Sun 4 May 2014 00:10

Trcky wrote:
Hartmann wrote:Anybody defending how fuel works currently is pretty lost. Some vehicles are arbitrarily made useless because of it, and other vehicles never ever have to worry about running out.


Trcky wrote:This is a tactical game and requires the player to think about his moves and also about the fuel consumption of his units if you plan a big offensive across a large battlefield then you need to consider your fuel consumption so make sure you have a supply line to refuel and rearm your vehicles if need be, i.e. i always use the big supply chopper with smaller supply trucks hidden away to fill up my units. This game is not "COH" and removing the fuel mechanic because players are to lazy to refuel their vehicles would just make the game very dull in my opinion. I actually love the fact that we have to take into account the fuel consumption having that critical supply line can turn the tide of battle, this is what makes this game great and been able to deny the enemy his fuel supply to halt his advance is all part of the fun..

Tedious i think not.



Oh god when fuel wouldn't be a factor we'd lose the insane tactical depth that it currently gives in game. I've lost count of the times I got all dizzy with immersion when my tanks run out of fuel after manoeuvring for 2 minutes. It just felt so life like I had to go lie down for a minute afterwards until I can come to grips with it all.

Please yes retain the incredible immersion that is tanks with autonomy of 2 street lengths. Such gameplay and depth of tactics when you need to send supply choppers to them wow.

Excuse me, I'm gonna go read some WW2 accounts of Hellcat crews who couldn't finish a battle without refuelling 8 times per hour.


Well i like having fuel in the game so it's all good, i think you should find a different game to play because fuel is not going to be removed because you can't be bothered to micro your supply. This is one of the few games which have this mechanic and i think it makes the game a lot more interesting.

Damn lazy players who just want to spam shit loads of units and call that fun.....Meh :(


Nice reading comprehension.

It's not realistic, it's not tactical, it's not good design to have units that aren't worth using due to fuel problems. Vehicles don't run out of fuel after 10km, it just doesn't happen and it's not good gameplay.

If you 'like' something but cannot figure out any arguments to defend your point of view you should probably stop posting.

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Niscimble
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Re: Get rid of Fuel

Postby Niscimble » Sun 4 May 2014 00:24

Hartmann wrote:
Trcky wrote:
Damn lazy players who just want to spam shit loads of units and call that fun.....Meh :(


Nice reading comprehension.

It's not realistic, it's not tactical, it's not good design to have units that aren't worth using due to fuel problems. Vehicles don't run out of fuel after 10km, it just doesn't happen and it's not good gameplay.

If you 'like' something but cannot figure out any arguments to defend your point of view you should probably stop posting.


If realism is your goal, you're looking in the wrong place. This entire game is an abstraction of reality, thus allowing it to be balanced for... wait for it.... gameplay reasons. We ALL agree that some of the units in this game have insanely low autonomy for no reason, but to say that fuel shouldn't be in the game at all because of this? That's just your opinion.
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Hartmann
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Re: Get rid of Fuel

Postby Hartmann » Sun 4 May 2014 00:26

Where did I say that fuel shouldn't be in the game?

I don't really think it's necessary to remove it as a factor, but just bringing it a lot closer to the actual value stated on the card would pretty much fix everything. So just double or tripple actual autonomy ingame.


Not there I think.

I really don't care very much for removing fuel from the game. A lot of tanks however have such high autonomy that fuel will never be a concern before munition or repairs are. That should be a requirement for a minimum autonomy, which ought to be around what 400/500km autonomy is right now. That is a minimal action radius that tanks need to you don't get silly situations like we have now with the 200/250 autonomy units.

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Drang
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Re: Get rid of Fuel

Postby Drang » Sun 4 May 2014 00:35

double autonomy

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Re: Get rid of Fuel

Postby JohnSchwartz » Sun 4 May 2014 00:40

I'm in the "keep fuel, but increase autonomy" camp. Even the thirstiest tanks in the world can travel more than a few kilometers without refueling. You should be able, at the very least, to travel from one end of the map to the other. Fuel should simply discourage people from endlessly patrolling back and forth across the map.

It might also make sense for helos to consume fuel while hovering. It strikes me as mighty odd that I have more fuel problems with vehicles driving on roads than with helicopters hovering for eternity.

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Re: Get rid of Fuel

Postby feeblezak » Sun 4 May 2014 00:40

Learn to manage your logistics instead of trying to remove features. Autonomy is fine as is.
Give the MiG-19PFM its 5600m Missile back!!
If Someone could tell the drivers of the T-72M1M's and T-72B's to close their hatches, cheers.

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Re: Get rid of Fuel

Postby Nerdfish » Sun 4 May 2014 01:18

I'd like to see fuel stay.
Units should have their real life operation ranges. However they should not arrive with a full tank. so you can fuel them up to their real life ranges, if you need to. How much a fuel a unit arrive with can also be used to balance them.

and yes, helo should consume fuel while hovering and crash if they cannot land when they run out of fuel.

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Re: Get rid of Fuel

Postby CloakandDagger » Sun 4 May 2014 01:51

CandyMan wrote:Guess what guys, Pact tank designers made their tanks fuel efficient lean mean fighting machines to support their mobile warfare attack doctrines. Nato in all their infinite wisdom made their tanks heavy, heavily armored with low fuel economy because of their defensive doctrine. It's realistic and adds a layer of depth to wargame few other RTS's can claim. Seems some people are just to lazy to provide logistical support.


It's the opposite of realistic, units burn fuel 4x or more faster than they are supposed to.

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Re: Get rid of Fuel

Postby Saltyhero13 » Sun 4 May 2014 02:01

the huanglong wrote:You're assuming the units arrived on the battle field under something else's power. Anyway, I'd rather just see fuel burn at half to two thirds the speed. I find it interesting.


+1 I like fuel and ammo as a mission constraint

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