Get rid of Fuel

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SzikraTheDragon
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Re: Get rid of Fuel

Postby SzikraTheDragon » Sun 4 May 2014 16:52

Just no. Gimme my fuel baby.
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Kasrkin229
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Re: Get rid of Fuel

Postby Kasrkin229 » Mon 5 May 2014 19:44

-1 Totally against this idea


I bought wargame with one of the main reasons being that i have to watch the logistics of my units.
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BlackAlpha
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Re: Get rid of Fuel

Postby BlackAlpha » Mon 5 May 2014 19:56

Fuel is part of the logistics metagame. You need to keep fuel in mind when thinking about when and where to resupply your units. Or pick units that require less refueling. It makes the game more interesting, in my opinion.

Let's not "streamline" this, okay? Wargame is interesting because it's not dumbed down. There's a lot of going on in this game while still keeping the game quite accessible, and that is what gives the game its charm. The day you decide to dumb down the game, is the day you turn a brilliant and unique game into a generic RTS.

The game gives you enough options to properly and easily deal with fuel. If you think fuel is a problem, then it means you pay too little attention to the logistics metagame. It's one of the core mechanics of this game, so if you decide to ignore it because you think the "pew pew" part is all that counts, then that's your loss.

tldr; Welcome to the Wargame series. Logistics is part of the game, learn to deal with it. ;)

Mot
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Re: Get rid of Fuel

Postby Mot » Mon 5 May 2014 23:58

Ammo is the attack limitation factor.
Supplies both refuel and rearm, therefore in essence they are the same exact logistical aspect of the game.
Therefore if ammo is the primary limitation and if supplies work both ways, the argument that fuel is redundant is pretty much correct, it doesn't matter how much you want to dance around it.

But considering that lack of fuel could create "meta" tactics that are just wrong, fuel shouldn't be removed.
But having units that can't reach the frontline 10km away. Silly and pointless.
"I suck at Wargame" or "I have to wait 30 minutes to pubstomp people" are not solid arguments to criticize the game... just saying.

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Re: Get rid of Fuel

Postby Falcrack » Tue 6 May 2014 00:38

To those who are dead set against removing fuel as a game mechanic, how would you feel about keeping it in but increasing autonomy 100% for all units, basically double the fuel efficiency of what we have now? It would still be a game mechanic, but it would be far less annoying to deal with than it is currently.

Kasrkin229
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Re: Get rid of Fuel

Postby Kasrkin229 » Tue 6 May 2014 02:48

No , Leave Fuel and Munitions the way they are. If it's not broken don't try and fix it.
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Niscimble
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Re: Get rid of Fuel

Postby Niscimble » Tue 6 May 2014 04:18

Mot wrote:Ammo is the attack limitation factor.
Supplies both refuel and rearm, therefore in essence they are the same exact logistical aspect of the game.
Therefore if ammo is the primary limitation and if supplies work both ways, the argument that fuel is redundant is pretty much correct, it doesn't matter how much you want to dance around it.

But considering that lack of fuel could create "meta" tactics that are just wrong, fuel shouldn't be removed.
But having units that can't reach the frontline 10km away. Silly and pointless.


Actually, fuel is the primary limitation of attacking. Ammo is the limitation for both attackers and defenders. If you can't get ammo supplies up to your front defensive line, they will die just as easily as attackers who are out of ammo. Defenders with no fuel are in bad position since they can't displace, but aren't stranded out in the open like attackers. Fuel requires the player to make the decision to fast move on exposed roadways, or to drive cross country. It is an additional level of consideration, so I don't want to see it go. I do, however, want to see it changed a bit; Reduced refuel cost, global increase in autonomy, additional supply vehicles, etc.
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Darkstar387
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Re: Get rid of Fuel

Postby Darkstar387 » Tue 6 May 2014 04:25

At this point in the series, I am heavily against removing one the games defining core gameplay mechanics. I think it's implementation was a good idea, but there are some units that need to gave an autonomy buff. I agree with some of the comments made about Japan's armored forces, they suffer because of their limited operational capacity and should be reviewed.

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Re: Get rid of Fuel

Postby JohnSchwartz » Tue 6 May 2014 05:09

I'm not an expert at this game so maybe I'm doing it wrong, but my biggest problem with how logistics are run in this game is that there just aren't enough supply trucks to really make it work.

I bring two cards of command units (one command infantry, one command vehicles), and an FOB. That leaves only two cards max for supply trucks and helos. Since I need to keep my anti-air and arty supplied, that doesn't leave a whole lot of logistic capacity for supporting a tank push. I'm not against the idea of refueling ground vehicles, I just think that it would work out a lot better if the supply truck card space wasn't being shared with the command units. If I could bring an FOB and three or four cards of trucks and helos, then the pro-status quo arguments would carry a lot more weight.

As it is, I look at supply as a means of keeping my anti-air and big guns firing. I usually turn off the fuel and spare parts just to make ammo more available. Until the command vehicles are moved to a different category or the supply situation is otherwise loosened, I have to support an increase in ground unit autonomy (and a decrease in attack helicopter autonomy).

TL;DR - If supply is such an important part of the game, it should get its own category instead of being lumped in with command.

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Re: Get rid of Fuel

Postby JohnSchwartz » Tue 6 May 2014 05:16

Kasrkin229 wrote:No , Leave Fuel and Munitions the way they are. If it's not broken don't try and fix it.

If a unit can't make it to the midway point on the battlefield without refueling, then the fuel mechanic is broken.

It might be good to have a background value for maps that adjust fuel consumption so that units can make it to the fight on big maps while keeping fuel a concern for small maps. In other words, small maps would have a hidden fuel nerf, and big maps would have a hidden fuel buff, across the board.

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