Deck specializations: The good, the bad and the ugly

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vitmerc
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Deck specializations: The good, the bad and the ugly

Postby vitmerc » Sun 27 Jul 2014 20:04

DISCLAIMER:
The thread is not about RED vs BLU balance. Keep that to other threads.
Author has played over 400 hours of RD, about 95% of those as a specialized deck.
Author does not consider himself a pro player, merely average.
-END OF DISCLAIMER-

So here i was crossing the forums yet again and figured two things:

1) People believe spec decks are good for nothing
2) No good amount of suggestions have been put on how to make it "work out".

I cant fix the first, but i can help with the second.

First, my honest opinion on current decks:

1)Image Motorized:
A tricky one. Not really the most viable specialization (infact, quite gimped).
USSR motorized is full of flavour, tho. Fun, but doesnt pull its own weight.
Needs more "grip" on the land to last. For instance, cheap IFV's (no 5pt), and low-end tanks.
Some motorized national decks are lacking in good AA, tho.

2) Image Armored:
With the vet bug fixed, looks very viable to me. All dem elited tanks with fine support to boot.
However it does lack flavour - some units could be added to improve it
(mid/top-tier IFV and/or some FSV, for instance)

3) Image Support:
The one who gets all the blame. The one everyone hates in 10v10.
Support decks.
They are almost viable. Currently, booting cheap infantry and tanks, plus great support options, they work out
sometimes (that is, when not used to artyspam).
However, low tier IFV's and bonus recon/vehicle slots would help out newer players realize artillery is not their only job. Veteran players would appreciate more recon, helping put those guns to good use or spotting whatever is trying to flank them.
As support is, basically, handling that kind of stuff so that your teammates dont have to get distracted.

4) Image Marine:
A weird deck, sub-viable in normal matches thanks to increased plane slots, veterancy, and infantry slots.
One of the most viable decks as far as mixed maps go. For those who play mixed, anyway. I know i do.
If anything, could use some better FSV choise and attack helicopters, but thats about it.
Some national decks could use more AA.

5) Image Mechanized:
Quite a viable deck: Solid IFV and FSV choise, low-med tier tanks most of the time, decent AA.
You get a solid bulk of infantry, and sacrifice some shiny proto's for it.
Some of my personal favourite decks are motorized, infact.
Out of them all, this is the deck that needs the least, if any, tweaking. Some cheap helo transports would be welcome, but marine, motorized, and support needs them more.

6) Image Airborne:
Full of flavour, but often lacks the muscle to pull its own weight.
In my opinion, needs light armor plus cheap IFV's, but some national decks already have those.
Generally, the AA in these decks is "meh" at best, so that should probably be also looked into.
Light 81/82mm Mortars would help the lacking infantry power aswell.

For ( i hope) obvious reasons i am leaving 'Naval' out.

Please, if you have any ideas on how to improve unit selection, and most importantly which BLUFOR units (i am more into REDFOR) would be authentic to add into their respectable decks, it would be quite kind to post them
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Re: Deck specializations: The good, the bad and the ugly

Postby D-M » Sun 27 Jul 2014 20:08

Can't tell what suck or not until the ATGM bug is solved.
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Re: Deck specializations: The good, the bad and the ugly

Postby vitmerc » Sun 27 Jul 2014 20:11

Well im mainly wrapping my opinion around all the games i played with REDFOR specialized decks of all types pre-dlc, plus of certain types (namely Airlifted, Marine, Motorized and Mechanized) post-DLC>
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Re: Deck specializations: The good, the bad and the ugly

Postby thenosh » Sun 27 Jul 2014 20:26

What do you think on eastern block motorized? In theory it seems to look nice, but I haven't tried it out yet.
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Re: Deck specializations: The good, the bad and the ugly

Postby vitmerc » Sun 27 Jul 2014 20:53

thenosh wrote:What do you think on eastern block motorized? In theory it seems to look nice, but I haven't tried it out yet.


Its lacking in some areas, and its not as full of flavour as USSR one - cant really advice it to anyone.
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Re: Deck specializations: The good, the bad and the ugly

Postby Admiral Piett » Sun 27 Jul 2014 20:58

I would actually use a South Korean marine deck if it had AA, but unfortunately it doesn't.

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Re: Deck specializations: The good, the bad and the ugly

Postby Darth-Lampshade » Sun 27 Jul 2014 21:02

I miss my M113A3 with Dragon II for my US armored deck. As if it wasn't bad enough not being able to take any M2 Bradleys they decided to take those away.
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Re: Deck specializations: The good, the bad and the ugly

Postby Sweedish_Gunner » Sun 27 Jul 2014 21:07

Admiral Piett wrote:I would actually use a South Korean marine deck if it had AA, but unfortunately it doesn't.


Play Blue Dragon marine and you get the Japs and their AA, plus some Jap infantry to boot.
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Re: Deck specializations: The good, the bad and the ugly

Postby raventhefuhrer » Sun 27 Jul 2014 21:19

All specialized decks need alot more units and less restrictions. If you ask me, any deck specialization should be 80-90% about bonuses, with as few restrictions as possible to ensure the proper deck flavor.

Motorized
- Really needs T-55's and Leopard 1's, and I mean the most modern of both - T-55 DYNA, T-55 AMV, Leopard 1 C2, Leopard 1A5... These tanks aren't particularly powerful and certainly aren't heavy, but would add a lot of staying power to a deck that otherwise has a huge amount of 'softness'.
- Transport issues exist in some decks, need more. Revert the transport card limit changes...no one asked for them, no one wanted them.
- Certain decks lose too many recon and vehicle options for a deck that gets a bonus to recon and vehicles.
- Arbitrary infantry restrictions, for example French RIMa aren't available in Motorized, when Eugen should know as well as anyone that in the French army, Legion and Marine units are so interspersed with regular army units that effectively there's little distinction. Take the 6th DBL for example.

Mechanized
- Needs one level heavier tank on average.
- Open up some wheeled transports. Soviet Motor-Rifle Divisions had three infantry regiments - one with BMP's, two with BTR's.
- Inconsistent application of non-mechanized infantry. For example, SAS available everywhere while LSTR-40 are shoved into only one deck type.
- Nonsensical helicopter restrictions.
- Restrictions on support section are sometimes awkward. Like no MSTA for example.
- Generally the best specialized deck just because infantry slots are way too choked off. Still needs help.

Armored
- Open up the IFVs, for goodness sakes. Having tanks without access to Bradleys, Warriors, BMP-2 infantry carriers is the height of insanity, and completely nonsensical.
- Silly helicopter restrictions again.
- Support section needs to be opened up, like Mechanized.
- Increasing tank exp bonus was a good idea though, interested to see it after the availability bug is fixed.

Marine
- Argh...USMC is the only one worth playing because it's the only one that gets worthwhile tanks.
- Plane Restrictions are crippling...French, USSR and especially North Korea suffer terribly. USA is killed by lack of an ASF.
- Helicopter restrictions are also really bad. French get no Tigers, USSR gets no gunships, USMC gets gimped too...
- I understand there's not much you can do with Marine decks because they have to straddle the naval section of the game with their bonuses, but at least open up planes and make more reasonable choices with helicopters. An infantry based deck requires a lot of air support to provide the firepower they lack with tanks.

Airborne
- Card restrictions on transports can be deadly in some decks, oftentimes not having a reasonable number of the cheap transports, or even not having enough at all.
- Certain Airborne decks just don't have enough ground-based AT power, like US Airborne for example. Needs a SMAW team.
- Crippled by SPAAG buffs...helicopters need a little something extra to survive.

Support
- I'd say remove it, but I like being able to know who's an arty spammer ahead of time so I can remove them from my lobby, rather than being surprised when the game starts.
- If you could somehow make it more about supplying, vehicle/infantry/AA support, and less about being able to get a huge amount of artillery, then great. Otherwise it's doomed to an arty spam deck in 99% of the cases I see.
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Re: Deck specializations: The good, the bad and the ugly

Postby Admiral Piett » Sun 27 Jul 2014 21:29

raventhefuhrer wrote:All specialized decks need alot more units and less restrictions. If you ask me, any deck specialization should be 80-90% about bonuses, with as few restrictions as possible to ensure the proper deck flavor.

Motorized
- Really needs T-55's and Leopard 1's, and I mean the most modern of both - T-55 DYNA, T-55 AMV, Leopard 1 C2, Leopard 1A5... These tanks aren't particularly powerful and certainly aren't heavy, but would add a lot of staying power to a deck that otherwise has a huge amount of 'softness'.
- Transport issues exist in some decks, need more. Revert the transport card limit changes...no one asked for them, no one wanted them.
- Certain decks lose too many recon and vehicle options for a deck that gets a bonus to recon and vehicles.
- Arbitrary infantry restrictions, for example French RIMa aren't available in Motorized, when Eugen should know as well as anyone that in the French army, Legion and Marine units are so interspersed with regular army units that effectively there's little distinction. Take the 6th DBL for example.

Mechanized
- Needs one level heavier tank on average.
- Open up some wheeled transports. Soviet Motor-Rifle Divisions had three infantry regiments - one with BMP's, two with BTR's.
- Inconsistent application of non-mechanized infantry. For example, SAS available everywhere while LSTR-40 are shoved into only one deck type.
- Nonsensical helicopter restrictions.
- Restrictions on support section are sometimes awkward. Like no MSTA for example.
- Generally the best specialized deck just because infantry slots are way too choked off. Still needs help.

Armored
- Open up the IFVs, for goodness sakes. Having tanks without access to Bradleys, Warriors, BMP-2 infantry carriers is the height of insanity, and completely nonsensical.
- Silly helicopter restrictions again.
- Support section needs to be opened up, like Mechanized.
- Increasing tank exp bonus was a good idea though, interested to see it after the availability bug is fixed.

Marine
- Argh...USMC is the only one worth playing because it's the only one that gets worthwhile tanks.
- Plane Restrictions are crippling...French, USSR and especially North Korea suffer terribly. USA is killed by lack of an ASF.
- Helicopter restrictions are also really bad. French get no Tigers, USSR gets no gunships, USMC gets gimped too...
- I understand there's not much you can do with Marine decks because they have to straddle the naval section of the game with their bonuses, but at least open up planes and make more reasonable choices with helicopters. An infantry based deck requires a lot of air support to provide the firepower they lack with tanks.

Airborne
- Card restrictions on transports can be deadly in some decks, oftentimes not having a reasonable number of the cheap transports, or even not having enough at all.
- Certain Airborne decks just don't have enough ground-based AT power, like US Airborne for example. Needs a SMAW team.
- Crippled by SPAAG buffs...helicopters need a little something extra to survive.

Support
- I'd say remove it, but I like being able to know who's an arty spammer ahead of time so I can remove them from my lobby, rather than being surprised when the game starts.
- If you could somehow make it more about supplying, vehicle/infantry/AA support, and less about being able to get a huge amount of artillery, then great. Otherwise it's doomed to an arty spam deck in 99% of the cases I see.


Pretty much this. Unspecialized is still by far the best way to go. The only specialized decks I ever see when I play are artillery spam support decks, airborne decks that are wiped out in two minutes be me followed by a rage quit from the guy that took the deck, and mechanized decks. The last of these at least works sometimes, though it could still use some help.

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