Don't completely fix the ATGMS please

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Darkstar387
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Re: Don't completely fix the ATGMS please

Postby Darkstar387 » Tue 29 Jul 2014 21:22

Bullfrog wrote:
Darkstar387 wrote:Without the ATGM, the tank has no natural predators.



As far as I'm aware no one is suggesting making the ATGM useless.

That part was satire.

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Re: Don't completely fix the ATGMS please

Postby Bullfrog » Tue 29 Jul 2014 21:23

Darkstar387 wrote:
Bullfrog wrote:
Darkstar387 wrote:Without the ATGM, the tank has no natural predators.



As far as I'm aware no one is suggesting making the ATGM useless.

That part was satire.


Sorry went over my head :oops:
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Re: Don't completely fix the ATGMS please

Postby yacoub » Tue 29 Jul 2014 21:47

Rorschach wrote:ATGMS at the moment are broken, yes, but as a result of this, gameplay has become more mobile, more aggressive, and less campy. In short, it's great.

Although ATGMS do need to be fixed in order to validate about 30% of the games units, I think that the fixed ATGM roll count should be somewhere in between its original value, and the value it is now.


Agreed. Since ATGMs were broken there's no denying the gameplay has benefitted and improved. We've actually got mobile forces again out in the open conducting maneuver warfare! It feels more like ALB and less like RD's camp-inducing ATGM-heavy former meta.
Hopefully the fix achieves a nice balance between the two scenarios.

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Re: Don't completely fix the ATGMS please

Postby Drang » Tue 29 Jul 2014 21:53

ATGMs causing camping has been a staple problem since EE.

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Re: Don't completely fix the ATGMS please

Postby Killertomato » Tue 29 Jul 2014 21:57

ATGM camping is a problem inherent in modern warfare. USSR was big on artillery for a reason, and by the '80s a big part of that reason was killing/disrupting ATGM teams.
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Re: Don't completely fix the ATGMS please

Postby Nerdfish » Tue 29 Jul 2014 22:02

This would effect nato vs pact balance a little bit
if ATGM get fixed completely, pact tanks would become incredibly strong. As we know they can destroy ATGM carriers from missile range while nato tanks cannot. It should be only a minor issue through, nothing a nato player can't deal with using some tactics to force close combat.

I'd say leave infantry ATGM somewhat gimped because they were too price effective. Milan and kronur can pay themselves off by landing one hit and are nearly impossible to detect in cities. Vehicle ATGM should get fixed completely. ATGM tanks should get fixed midway. :lol:

tldl: Infantry atgm should be bad because they are the cause of static battles. other atgm can be used offensively, thus okay.

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Re: Don't completely fix the ATGMS please

Postby shervin » Tue 29 Jul 2014 22:13

for all haters against viking, try using the holy trinety of scandi SF, NOR SF=AT(no T80Uwateverthecrap will survive), SWE SF=15man anti inf(trows axe at li juan and their riotpolice friends) DK SF=sneaky recon asshole that will mess your arty up. :mrgreen:

stop the hate, spread the Eryx and CG flowers to infedel commie tanks :lol:

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Re: Don't completely fix the ATGMS please

Postby huee » Tue 29 Jul 2014 22:15

Increase ATGM firing noise, so we can actually detect those little bastards after shooting and annihilate them. Nowadays they stay invisible even with recon less than 2km away from them, which is nonsense.
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Re: Don't completely fix the ATGMS please

Postby Ultimaratio » Tue 29 Jul 2014 22:24

I prefer proper working ATGMS. You can tweak their price, availibity or veterancy but dont grimple down their stats.
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Re: Don't completely fix the ATGMS please

Postby raventhefuhrer » Tue 29 Jul 2014 22:26

Before we have a discussion about whether ATGMs need to be nerfed or buffed or whatever, we need to get them into the state they were intended to be in. So much has been changed right now, we really need to play for a little while, rather than chasing changes with more changes and so on without really understanding the state of the game or what you're doing.

I understand a lot of you have trouble with ATGMs, but I respectfully submit that it's because you don't utilize the tools at your disposal to counter them. I've gone as far as to take ATGM infantry out of many of my decks for lack of usefulness.

Please consider these arguments:

- I use smoke every single game, usually frequently. I see other players use smoke (even once) about 1 in every 3 or 4 games. That means that if I play four 3v3's, I go through three games where the other five players don't use smoke once, and then on the fourth game, one out of the five other players may use smoke a little bit. Ergo, I can only assume that the playerbase at large under utilizes smoking capability, since I play a lot of games and against players with a wide variance in skill level.

- One press of a button from a 40 point mortar can render an ATGM pretty much useless. Using a handful of mortars to lay down a comprehensive wall of smoke (as was conventional in modern warfare doctrine of those times, precisely because ATGMs and tanks from concealed firing positions are so deadly) is important. The fact is that if you smoke a position and advance, by the time the smoke clears or you break through, you're fighting at a range that makes ATGMs ineffective because they'll be revealed and fired upon before they can hit you.

- ATGMs are crazy vulnerable to indirect fire, even from mortars. When you consider that ATGM teams only have 2 HP, many ATGM vehicles have little or no armor, and also that ATGMs are incredible sensitive to morale effects, I just don't think that many players are doing the correct preparatory shelling of a fixed enemy position before you assault it.

I know it's pretty 'Learn 2 play' but...I really don't have even a little bit of a problem with ATGMs, so there must be a disconnect somewhere.
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