Counters for heavy AA like Patriot

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Iveliar
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Counters for heavy AA like Patriot

Postby Iveliar » Fri 12 Sep 2014 08:21

I think what we can have a counter system for all types of heavy AA, but for it we should have a rerolled SEAD planes closer to reality. So, how we can get that?

1. Radar detectors on top-lvl SEAD like Mig-25 or Raven should be buffed to exseptional with ability to detect any radars from 10 000 meters or same range. I know what this jest have exseptional detecters now but this detectors should be better then now.

Raven and Mig-25 anty-radar missles still should be a short range like now, but if SEADs will be detecting all heavy AA with superiority range it allow to kill AA with arty or force to keep radars deactivated like supressed - so like in real life.

It alco make sence for two types of SEAD now - cheap short range SEAD against regular radar AA and alone top-quality SEAD for detecting any radar AA ingame.

1.1. Maybe if we make a small nerf for a ability to shoting immediatly after activations of radar it make deactivation radars biggest problem then now, because it bring some time for jets on reduce a distanse.

It's arguable but I think main reason why Patriot is OP is their ability to immediartly shoting after activate.

2. Of course if any radar AA will be just deactivated it still can be a problem, because now exist no good ways to kill heavy AA. However, if we make regular SEAD a little cheaper with better ESM and with biggest aviability it allow to sending regular SEAD together with bombers, like in real life.

3. What is counter for heavy SEAD with their superiority detect range?

Only F-14 and Mig-31, expesially Mig-31 because this jet created against heavy bombers and another support planes like SEAD, and NATO have no good analoques.

Really if we add this SEAD system ingame it will be not mirror balanse for Red and Blue, because Blue should be have more types of better SEAD - against better Red AA - and in same time Red should have a long range jets for kill top-SEAD from range but less types and numbers of SEAD - against worse Blue AA.

4. Spam of cheap and good SEAD should a problem!

Big numbers of cheap SEAD still be not a problem, because without heavy SEAD their attack will be a suicidal mission - long range AA hit one with range and deactivate radar for next.

With heavy SEAD it still be a dangerous, but really, airforse isnt answer on all problems like now. Alone tank? Send a jet. Alone BTR? Send a jet. Some rookie consripts in a town? Send a jet. Anyone in sightseen of my recon? Send a jets!

Now I think what Air Forse will be more smart tactic then early.

P.S. if anyone can fix my english here it will be nice.
World War should never happen again.

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CornProducts
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Re: Counters for heavy AA like Patriot

Postby CornProducts » Fri 12 Sep 2014 09:48

1. Shoot it with a tank.
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Poptart Lover
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Re: Counters for heavy AA like Patriot

Postby Poptart Lover » Fri 12 Sep 2014 09:59

CornProducts wrote:1. Shoot it with a tank.

2. Kill it with a Smerch.
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Re: Counters for heavy AA like Patriot

Postby Skyenet » Fri 12 Sep 2014 10:05

Poptart Lover wrote:
CornProducts wrote:1. Shoot it with a tank.

2. Kill it with a Smerch.


3. Overrun it with infantry
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Miskyavine
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Re: Counters for heavy AA like Patriot

Postby Miskyavine » Fri 12 Sep 2014 10:10

4. Cry when someone shoots it with a tank Smerches it and over runs its dead carcas with infantry
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Tiera
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Re: Counters for heavy AA like Patriot

Postby Tiera » Fri 12 Sep 2014 11:00

Poptart Lover wrote:
CornProducts wrote:1. Shoot it with a tank.

2. Kill it with a Smerch.


And wonder what on Earth this Blufor player in question was doing while the Smerch first slowly aimed and then the rockets were visibly flying from far, far away (even at Smerch minimum range) towards his wheeled, highly mobile AA piece? :|
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Re: Counters for heavy AA like Patriot

Postby Skyenet » Fri 12 Sep 2014 11:04

Tiera wrote:
Poptart Lover wrote:
CornProducts wrote:1. Shoot it with a tank.

2. Kill it with a Smerch.


And wonder what on Earth this Blufor player in question was doing while the Smerch first slowly aimed and then the rockets were visibly flying from far, far away (even at Smerch minimum range) towards his wheeled, highly mobile AA piece? :|


Presumably he was busy countering the attack you've prepared while your smerch (invisibly so) aimed for an eon, because you're a good player who goes on the attack rather than sitting there and crying because the most expensive piece of AA in the game keeps shooting down your planes because you can't adapt to the battlefield conditions.
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Tiera
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Re: Counters for heavy AA like Patriot

Postby Tiera » Fri 12 Sep 2014 11:20

Skyenet wrote:Presumably he was busy countering the attack you've prepared while your smerch (invisibly so) aimed for an eon, because you're a good player who goes on the attack rather than sitting there and crying because the most expensive piece of AA in the game keeps shooting down your planes because you can't adapt to the battlefield
conditions.


First of all - what if happen to play a deck that does not have a Smerch?
Secondly - Aimed invisibly at what?

The location where it fired for the last time? Against a Patriot controlled by a good player that somehow just happened remain in the same location after firing? Sure, it could happen occasionally, I could even give you an anecdote or two for using a (much more stealthier) Malka in a same way and killing a stationary Patriot.
But are you really and seriously claiming that this is a reliable way to counter it?

What about a Patriot that just keeps driving around along roads with a 850km autonomy while on attack move, while occasional stopping to reload? Adapting to these battlefield conditions in Redfor side equals on seriously limiting the usage of Redfor air within the operational limit of Patriot, and in a combined arms battlefield that really changes the way things work out at the ground level.

I'm attacking and countering the Blufor air quite fine while doing so, but I fail to see how bland "L2P/getgut" arguments have any relevancy here.

At the current state of Patriot is just as bad for general gameplay as the MiG-31M/Tomcat circles of doom were in ALB. And that is the essense of the argument here.
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Grabbed_by_the_Spets
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Re: Counters for heavy AA like Patriot

Postby Grabbed_by_the_Spets » Fri 12 Sep 2014 14:16

I'd rather Patriot be nerfed to Kub/buk/Hawk range than an entire line of units be buffed to counter a single unit.
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Brutoni
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Re: Counters for heavy AA like Patriot

Postby Brutoni » Fri 12 Sep 2014 14:29

Grabbed_by_the_Spets wrote:I'd rather Patriot be nerfed to Kub/buk/Hawk range than an entire line of units be buffed to counter a single unit.


I'd rather the Patriot wasn't in game. Quite frankly its range is pathetic compared to RL anyway and the HAWK PIP could have fulfilled this role anyway.
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