West Germany’s Bundeswehr in WRD

123aser123
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Re: West Germany’s Bundeswehr in WRD

Postby 123aser123 » Tue 7 Oct 2014 04:46

that is a long thread.
why not we give up all unbalancing argument. it is meaningless, that's all. guys forget about it.


in my conclusion, because of

This game has a lot of concept designing that didn't quite think through and well enough.

as this one which provokes endless balancing debate and adding new unit desire in its whole life.

and of Eugen has a very unique way to handle games.

the game UI is very unique style and taste which is good
the User XP is 1 star out of 5 stars i think. which is poor, comparing with network game developed by big company like EA or steam or Blizzard etc. nowadays.

over. arguably shaking head. :(

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QUAD
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Re: West Germany’s Bundeswehr in WRD

Postby QUAD » Tue 7 Oct 2014 04:59

I don't understand.
Mobile Units Operational :!:

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SKLKNKR
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Re: West Germany’s Bundeswehr in WRD

Postby SKLKNKR » Tue 7 Oct 2014 05:01

QUAD wrote:I don't understand.


Ne..neither do I.
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Adolith
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Re: West Germany’s Bundeswehr in WRD

Postby Adolith » Tue 7 Oct 2014 08:24

Forimar wrote:It's just that some of these suggestions are pretty ridiculous and massively buff eurocorps.
Change the current FRR Roland 2 unit data to an Anti-Air unit which is switched to optical mode

Fills the only real weakness in Euro AA: fighting helos outside of Kokon range


FRP Roland 2 would have the same ranges as the French Roland 1, no one suggested otherwise. Accuracy would also not be 65% in non-radar guided mode. Also Eurocorps has the Crotale with 3300 anti-helo range. So how would it fill a Eurocorps weakness? It would only fill a West-German weakness.


Also, please differentiate between suggestions in this thread. If someone wants to have 11 Gepards A2, it is clear it will never happen. However, such a suggestion does not invalidate other, more reasonable, suggestions in this thread.

Finally I would like to say that no reasonable player wants to improve West Germany alone. China needs the most help atm, but it has its own thread with its own suggestions and I have no knowledge in Chinese military (however, the thread has gone a bit inactive). UK needs some help, be it a better Swingfire or Rapier FSB or better Chieftains - but again, they have their own thread. USA does not want M60s and wants a non-marine shock unit.

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Re: West Germany’s Bundeswehr in WRD

Postby Thonar » Tue 7 Oct 2014 08:31

QUAD wrote:(AM I AT LEAST PARTIALLY CORRECT?)


You are not even close:
You are mixing up three different kinds of teams:
1. "PALR-Trupp" (ATGM-team)
2. "Panzervernichtungstrupp" (a team formed ad hoc by a squad to hunt tanks in the area of the squad independently, mostly 3 man, a teamleader and 2x PzFst, nearly never an ATGM)
3. "Jagdkommando" (Infantry-units up to platoon-strength fighting the "Jagdkampf" behind enemy lines, a kind of organized Guerrilla-War by regular troops)


I renew my demand for:
1. Air-Transportable Wiesel (CH53) (its even fair, because West-German Airmobile gets airlifted support-vehicle, while USSR-airmobile has already IFVs (not airlifted, but still better than every other nation)
2. M109A3GA1 with 3-round-burst and 10-15s aim-time
3. Starfighter with 4x Napalm-Bombs
AND
4. Roland 2 in optical-mode
€: 5. A bigger "Mid-Tier"-ASF amount (for all nations)
Last edited by Thonar on Tue 7 Oct 2014 09:07, edited 2 times in total.

Ritterlich
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Re: West Germany’s Bundeswehr in WRD

Postby Ritterlich » Tue 7 Oct 2014 08:54

Imo Germany needs

a) howitzer artillery buff
b) proper optical AA
c) the Eurofighter.

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urho
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Re: West Germany’s Bundeswehr in WRD

Postby urho » Tue 7 Oct 2014 11:28

awesomesauce47 wrote:I am literally sick of fanboys of any nation. West Germany has the best line infantry, best shock troops, best ifv (Marder 2), most cost effective tank (Leo 2A4), and a top of the line super heavy (Leo 2A5), and you are asking for MORE. Come on, you can't possibly say adding the euro fighter to Germany couldn't help euro corps. In a 3v3 or 4v4 someone can just take ASFs as euro corps and eliminate the need to rely on ground AA when you have 4 elite top of the line ASFs. As for the PZH2000 the same argument applies, having 4 top of the line howitzers on the field would be overpowered. Oh and don't forget about how ridiculous a eurocorps support deck would be, not even going to get into to that due to it being obvious.

The point is these changes make euro corps even more overpowered.

>West Germany has the best line infantry, best shock troops
even the best line infantry & best shock troops can't do anything against Su24M, Buratino and firesupport

>best ifv=Marder 2 hurrdurr
The Marder is certainly an icecold, badass mofo and it's so cool it would wear sun glasses + beard if it was human.
But that doesn't make it the best ifv. It's worse fire support(way lower ROF + only 1 HE) than a marder I or any bmp and it costs 30, you have only 1 card with 8 or 10 vehicles.
The Marder II is like an enzyme, it does only one job but that it does very well: killing lighty amoured bmp scum. A lot of fun but nothing that will decide a battle single-handedly.

>most cost effective tank = Leo 2A4 hurrdurr
Did you even visit the amory? the Leo 2A4 is far from being the most cost effective tank in this game. Just take a look at the T-64BV or even BV1.

>OMFG if gibe EF, EC so OP :*********(
No. You have a limited count of activation slots in each tab and a limited counf of activation points.
How can a deck be OP without a mortar, bomber, SEAD plane, NPLM plane and ATGM plane?
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chema1994
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Re: West Germany’s Bundeswehr in WRD

Postby chema1994 » Tue 7 Oct 2014 11:32

The actual problems are:
a) Very limited air-defense options,, most of them relying on ground-based radar guided missile systems.
Solutions: F-4F KWS without prototype status and/or Eurofighter and/or Roland operating in optical-mode.

b) Lack of CQB infantry (except for the FJ)
Solutions: G4A4 or G3KA4 with assault rifle stats and/or affordable shock infantry with MP2.

Also some other cool toys that seem to be forgotten:
Begleitpanzer 57 AIFSV: 50mm in the Marder not enough for you? What about a 57mm Bofors and TOW missiles?
Beobachtungspanzer: The KaJaPa is cool, so what about using it in a recon role?
Sonderwagen II: Autocannon cult approved (SW II > Luchs)

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Widar Thule
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Re: West Germany’s Bundeswehr in WRD

Postby Widar Thule » Tue 7 Oct 2014 12:38

From time to time some comments are made that the Eurocorps coalition would be able to deploy four very strong Interceptors/ASFs if the Bundeswehr would have the Typhoon in WRD. In fact Eurocorps repeatedly is brought up by some forum members as an argument to block any improvement of the Bundeswehr unit roster in WRD, overlooking the fact that some players use national deck/battlegroups only. Some players do that because they only host national deck/battlegroup games, and some because they prefer their more authentic flavour.

To players who believe Eurocorps overall is too strong compared to all others in WRD, something which really is not what this topic is all about, I can only say: host national deck/battlegroup games and all your Eurocorps problems are solved. Other than that, I advise forum members to start a “Eurocorps in WRD” topic to specifically discuss that issue and not invade this topic with that discussion.

Concerning a Bundeswehr Typhoon in WRD it is useful to show that having four top level Interceptors/ASFs in a deck/battlegroup is currently already possible in WRD. But it seems to not present any problems since there are no long running forum topics discussing such an issue.

In the hundreds of multiplayer games I have played in WRD I have never seen any player use 4 out of 5 aircraft slots on Interceptors/ASFs only and achieve that supposed mythical “aerial lock down” some players have referred to.

Let us look at the current four slot possibilities for above average Interceptors/ASFs, defined as elite level experience, 100+ points costing aircraft with MRAAM missiles in WRD for the USSR, USA, UK, France and West Germany:

USSR:
- 2 slots of 1 elite Su 27 PU at 170 points each
- 1 slot of 1 elite Su 27S at 150 points
- 1 slot of 1 elite Su 27 M at 200 points (unique multi-role case)

USA
- 2 slots of 1 elite F-15C Eagle at 170 points each
- 1 slot of 1 elite F-16C Block 52 at 160 points
- 1 slot of 1 elite F-15A Eagle at 130 points

UK
- 2 slots of 1 elite Eurofighter Typhoon at 175 points each
- 1 slot of 1 elite Tornado F.3 at 135 points
- 1 slot of 2 elite Tornado F.2 at 110 points

France
- 2 slots of 1 elite Rafale C F1 at 180 points each
- 1 slot of 2 elite Mirage 2000C RDI at 120 points each
- 1 slot of 2 elite Mirage F1C-200 at 105 points each

Germany
- 1 slot of 1 elite F-4F KWS at 140 points

Note: Technically the only “true” LRAAM armed "Interceptors" in WRD, the two USSR MiG 31 models and the USA F-14, have been left out of this overview because they are in a class of their own in WRD and limited to only two nations in WRD. If they would be added the USSR and USA Interceptor/ASF possibilities become even more impressive when spread over five slots.

As is evident from the overview above, the USSR and USA already are in a position to deploy some exceptional Interceptor/ASF role aircraft in WRD looking at the current unit roster, and that is not even accounting for the MiG 31 and F-14 options. The four slot elite Interceptor/ASF options for the UK and France are no laughing matter either in WRD.

I have never in hundreds of WRD multiplayer games seen any USSR, USA, UK or French player deploy four slots out of five with 100+ costing elite experience level Interceptors/ASFs. Why? Because Interceptors/ASFs do not decide ground combat and four aircraft slots can be better utilized with other air assets than only Interceptors/ASFs. Other air assets which can actually directly influence ground combat, which Interceptors/ASFs clearly cannot.

Summary
Being able to create decks/battlegroups with four slots of elite experience level MRAAM armed Interceptors/ASFs is currently already possible in WRD. The USSR and USA have even better four+ aircraft slot options since they have the only LRAAM armed “true” Interceptors in WRD, the two MiG 31s models and the F-14. The current four slot Interceptor/ASF possibilities apparently present no problem in WRD as is. If the Bundeswehr in WRD would get “their” Typhoon this would consequently not make Eurocorps in WRD “overpowered”, since currently the USSR, USA, UK and France already have ample four slot of elite level Interceptor/ASF possibilities which present no problems at all in WRD for game play. The reason for that is because no balanced deck/battlegroup would waste four precious aircraft slots and 20% of the activation points on having just four and only four Interceptor/ASF aircraft which cannot directly influence ground combat.
One of the indicators that a person or group is insecure in their position, is their attempt to silence dissent.

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awesomesauce47
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Re: West Germany’s Bundeswehr in WRD

Postby awesomesauce47 » Tue 7 Oct 2014 12:44

@urho did you actually read my post?

If you don't think the marder 2 is op for 30 points I don't know what to tell you. I normally can kill super heavies at close range while being hard as hell to kill in forest fighting with the 10av.

Will not argue your point about the EF if you will fail to read and understand my argument.

MG3 is best mg in game, if you manage to get all 20 of your jäger by am sure-24M it is your fault. Roland 3 is more then enough.

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