On Patriot again ...

wy456
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Re: On Patriot again ...

Postby wy456 » Thu 6 Nov 2014 17:12

Tonci87 wrote:
Dude it´s really simple:

If a unit is so strong that it can kill it´s counter with relatively low chances of beeing killed itself then you have a problem. It is really that easy and simple. To balance this the unit in question can be made expensive (wich is not the case with the Patriot) or very rare (wich kinda also isn´t the case).

So yes the Patriot is OP and should be reworked.


I don't share your opinion, but i also understand it. If it were up to me a lot of units had to be removed from the game including all Protos and all units never made it into service. All long range AA had to go but the Buk.

That would add some authenticity. But unfortunately its not up to me. All I am saying is that no matter if it is red or blue, if there is heavy AA and you can't apply tactics that I have described before you can't fly.

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Re: On Patriot again ...

Postby Tonci87 » Thu 6 Nov 2014 17:25

wy456 wrote:
Tonci87 wrote:
Dude it´s really simple:

If a unit is so strong that it can kill it´s counter with relatively low chances of beeing killed itself then you have a problem. It is really that easy and simple. To balance this the unit in question can be made expensive (wich is not the case with the Patriot) or very rare (wich kinda also isn´t the case).

So yes the Patriot is OP and should be reworked.


I don't share your opinion, but i also understand it. If it were up to me a lot of units had to be removed from the game including all Protos and all units never made it into service. All long range AA had to go but the Buk.

That would add some authenticity. But unfortunately its not up to me. All I am saying is that no matter if it is red or blue, if there is heavy AA and you can't apply tactics that I have described before you can't fly.


And yet those same tactics work really well if you play Blufor even with Buks around....
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Tiera
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Re: On Patriot again ...

Postby Tiera » Thu 6 Nov 2014 17:32

wy456 wrote:All I am saying is that no matter if it is red or blue, if there is heavy AA and you can't apply tactics that I have described before you can't fly.


In my books this is a dishonest argument, because the range difference of Patriot gives it the unique ability to shield behind cheap SEAD-baits and fire first against all incoming aircrafts. As everyone who has played this game a lot must certainly know. The option to loiter at the outer edge of enemy SAM range with Raven or Tornado and kite away while friendly bombers charge in simply doesn't exist against Patriots.
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wy456
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Re: On Patriot again ...

Postby wy456 » Thu 6 Nov 2014 17:36

Tiera wrote:
wy456 wrote:All I am saying is that no matter if it is red or blue, if there is heavy AA and you can't apply tactics that I have described before you can't fly.


In my books this is a dishonest argument, because the range difference of Patriot gives it the unique ability to shield behind cheap SEAD-baits and fire first against all incoming aircrafts. As everyone who has played this game a lot must certainly know. The option to loiter at the outer edge of enemy SAM range with Raven or Tornado and kite away while friendly bombers charge in simply doesn't exist against Patriots.


Take one of your friends, bring 2 Patriots and 2 pivads and let your friend attack.

Then your friend brings in 2 rombs and 3 newas and you attack. Don't forget to micro. Result will be the same. But maybe you need to try it for yourself. and:

Don't forget to micro.

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Re: On Patriot again ...

Postby Tonci87 » Thu 6 Nov 2014 17:46

wy456 wrote:
Tiera wrote:
wy456 wrote:All I am saying is that no matter if it is red or blue, if there is heavy AA and you can't apply tactics that I have described before you can't fly.


In my books this is a dishonest argument, because the range difference of Patriot gives it the unique ability to shield behind cheap SEAD-baits and fire first against all incoming aircrafts. As everyone who has played this game a lot must certainly know. The option to loiter at the outer edge of enemy SAM range with Raven or Tornado and kite away while friendly bombers charge in simply doesn't exist against Patriots.


Take one of your friends, bring 2 Patriots and 2 pivads and let your friend attack.

Then your friend brings in 2 rombs and 3 newas and you attack. Don't forget to micro. Result will be the same. But maybe you need to try it for yourself. and:

Don't forget to micro.


You only need one Patriot....
One Patriot and 3 Pivads is how expensive?
What do two Buks and 3 Biryusas cost?
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ElBubba
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Re: On Patriot again ...

Postby ElBubba » Thu 6 Nov 2014 17:54

So many hypotheticals and theories on both sides of the matter...
Arguments gain so much more weight if you just show evidence, no matter witch side of the matter you are.

1)If you think the Patriot is OP : POST REPLAYS

2)If you think the Patriot is not a issue and you have managed to play against them without problems : POST REPLAYS

Drag&drop the replayfile here: http://alb-replays.info/rdbeta/#/upload
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Re: On Patriot again ...

Postby Regnar » Thu 6 Nov 2014 17:58

Replays are actually pretty worthless, anecdotal evidence in discussions like this, considering they can easily be refuted with a "you didn't do x and y, l2p noob".

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Re: On Patriot again ...

Postby wy456 » Thu 6 Nov 2014 18:00

ElBubba wrote:So many hypotheticals and theories on both sides of the matter...
Arguments gain so much more weight if you just show evidence, no matter witch side of the matter you are.

1)If you think the Patriot is OP : POST REPLAYS

2)If you think the Patriot is not a issue and you have managed to play against them without problems : POST REPLAYS

Drag&drop the replayfile here: http://alb-replays.info/rdbeta/#/upload



I think this is a very good point. I will try to see through my replays and post when i find something.

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ElBubba
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Re: On Patriot again ...

Postby ElBubba » Thu 6 Nov 2014 18:05

Regnar wrote:Replays are actually pretty worthless, anecdotal evidence in discussions like this, considering they can easily be refuted with a "you didn't do x and y, l2p noob".

How did you come to the opinion you are at the moment about the Patriot

1)Looked at its stats

2)Play games where you used it or it was used against you

If answer is number 2 then why not share the evidence that made you form your opinion?Replays are the best and only way to show somebody else what happened in a game,how and why.Why not use this to bolster your argument?
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Re: On Patriot again ...

Postby Drrty-D » Thu 6 Nov 2014 18:09

ElBubba wrote:
Regnar wrote:Replays are actually pretty worthless, anecdotal evidence in discussions like this, considering they can easily be refuted with a "you didn't do x and y, l2p noob".

How did you come to the opinion you are at the moment about the Patriot

1)Looked at its stats

2)Play games where you used it or it was used against you

If answer is number 2 then why not share the evidence that made you form your opinion?Replays are the best and only way to show somebody else what happened in a game,how and why.Why not use this to bolster your argument?



Replays are worthless to prove that Mr.Patriotskiy is OP or not if its played like the usual wargame routine is-pubstomp.That phrase give me a replay for everything works on many things,but there is no replay needed to tell that Mr.Pat is not ment to be here.
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