On Patriot again ...

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Sweedish_Gunner
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Re: On Patriot again ...

Postby Sweedish_Gunner » Sat 1 Nov 2014 16:42

Commonwealth is a rarity now. Blue Dragons are seen in <10% of games. Nearly all Blu players are USA, Germany or Eurocorps, with a few CW and BD every now and again. Scandis will probably quite popular after the DLC, moreso than CW or BD I think.

And yet again, on the Patriot; why is it so damn accurate? There's no reason for it. Nerf the accuracy by 10-20% and see what happens.
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Re: On Patriot again ...

Postby keebs63 » Sat 1 Nov 2014 16:52

I don't really care about pats accuracy, but I do have a few ideas on how to nerf it.

Nerf range to 4900m
increase supply cost so it reflects the fact it's a strategic weapon.
decrease the angle/fire cone of it
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Re: On Patriot again ...

Postby Sweedish_Gunner » Sat 1 Nov 2014 17:02

keebs63 wrote:I don't really care about pats accuracy, but I do have a few ideas on how to nerf it.

Nerf range to 4900m
increase supply cost so it reflects the fact it's a strategic weapon.
decrease the angle/fire cone of it


Well the accuracy is where the problem lies. Look at the PGZ-80 for China and the DPRK (ZSU-57-2 copy), it has 2.8k range against helo's, the same as the Hellfire missile yet it has horrendous accuracy and therefore it's pretty damn bad, at best it's good for stunning and scaring off helicopters. I imagined the Patriot to be a similar thing for aircraft but obviously with more killing power.
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Re: On Patriot again ...

Postby keebs63 » Sat 1 Nov 2014 17:07

Sweedish_Gunner wrote:
keebs63 wrote:I don't really care about pats accuracy, but I do have a few ideas on how to nerf it.

Nerf range to 4900m
increase supply cost so it reflects the fact it's a strategic weapon.
decrease the angle/fire cone of it


Well the accuracy is where the problem lies. Look at the PGZ-80 for China and the DPRK (ZSU-57-2 copy), it has 2.8k range against helo's, the same as the Hellfire missile yet it has horrendous accuracy and therefore it's pretty damn bad, at best it's good for stunning and scaring off helicopters. I imagined the Patriot to be a similar thing for aircraft but obviously with more killing power.

No, it's the accuracy + range. It's only 5% more than the BUK, and I doubt we find the BUK so OP. The range is the biggest probel.. It out ranges SEAD and that effectively shuts down CAS anywhere near the area.
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Re: On Patriot again ...

Postby LoneRifle » Sat 1 Nov 2014 17:10

Razlom wrote:Its so OP that is close to game-breaking. A couple of pats close the sky for red planes with ease. And the anti-helo defence is also very easy as there are avengers.


Your tears are delicious.

A unit with 2!!! Availability and more expensive then a bunch of the planes it shoots down is OP? Come on.
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Re: On Patriot again ...

Postby keebs63 » Sat 1 Nov 2014 17:11

LoneRifle wrote:
Razlom wrote:Its so OP that is close to game-breaking. A couple of pats close the sky for red planes with ease. And the anti-helo defence is also very easy as there are avengers.


Your tears are delicious.

A unit with 2!!! Availability and more expensive then a bunch of the planes it shoots down is OP? Come on.

Not sure if sarcasm or serious....
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Re: On Patriot again ...

Postby LoneRifle » Sat 1 Nov 2014 17:18

Send a SEAD plane with your bombers next time. People here just expect their unescorted bombers to magically win against Buks and Patriots and whine when it's not the case. It's amazing. Ever heard of combined arms anyone? No? Time to hit the books.
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Re: On Patriot again ...

Postby KattiValk » Sat 1 Nov 2014 17:18

Patriot effectiveness now comes down to player skill. Regular to bad players will use the Patriot like any other Rad SAM, but good to exceptional players will take advantage of the wheels and make it a shoot and scoot god (frankly, this IMO is its only real advantage as 3 BUKs are just as capable at removing enemy air from the game as two Patriots are).

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Re: On Patriot again ...

Postby another505 » Sat 1 Nov 2014 17:39

LoneRifle wrote:Send a SEAD plane with your bombers next time. People here just expect their unescorted bombers to magically win against Buks and Patriots and whine when it's not the case. It's amazing. Ever heard of combined arms anyone? No? Time to hit the books.

Ever hear that i could just shoot down your sead before you get into range? Ever hear that i have SEAD sponge or just turn off rad?? Sure send your mig25bm/ raven, you get one of those in a deck, i get 4 patriots. And please dont say ka-52 like madmat, cause that is dumbest thing to expect
Then you might say, fire arty at it, heck that thing is already running away on its wheel with 850km autonomy


To darkmill,
mortars? i guess 120mm mortars might touch it if both the mortar and the patriot are close to the front line, but that thing is fast

kiheerSEDMAN wrote:Patriot effectiveness now comes down to player skill. Regular to bad players will use the Patriot like any other Rad SAM, but good to exceptional players will take advantage of the wheels and make it a shoot and scoot god (frankly, this IMO is its only real advantage as 3 BUKs are just as capable at removing enemy air from the game as two Patriots are).



it still has better accuracy than buk and the range, BUKm1's range is under sead, so the sead player can circle around outside of the range and threaten it,
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Tiera
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Re: On Patriot again ...

Postby Tiera » Sat 1 Nov 2014 17:44

It's all about the combination of range advantage and accuracy that makes them really hard to counter. The problem is especially prominent in good-level team games on 3v3-4v4 Conquest setting. And yes, I have replays to prove it for what it matters. I'm certain that Marshalls have pointed this out to Eugen for a few times now, but I highly doubt it'll have any any effect at this point of the game. :|
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