BLUFOR TOW Infantry

User avatar
Mike
More than 10 000 messages. Soldier you are the leader of all armies!
Posts: 12409
Joined: Thu 20 Feb 2014 01:09
Location: Virginia, United States of America
Contact:

Re: US TOW Infantry

Postby Mike » Thu 16 Oct 2014 16:05

Bradley's are actually nerfed in terms of ATGM AP power. Stupid incorrect TOWs :(
Image
Courtesy of KattiValk

keebs63
Brigadier
Posts: 3091
Joined: Mon 3 Mar 2014 08:33
Contact:

Re: US TOW Infantry

Postby keebs63 » Thu 16 Oct 2014 16:06

Mike wrote:Bradley's are actually nerfed in terms of ATGM AP power. Stupid incorrect TOWs :(

Did the TOW 2A have increased penetration? I though it just improved the ability to defeat ERA?
Image
"arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even if you win, you're still retarted" -Someone, somewhere in Wargame Chat 2015

Rusknight
Captain
Posts: 1539
Joined: Wed 26 Mar 2014 22:12

Re: US TOW Infantry

Postby Rusknight » Thu 16 Oct 2014 16:07

molnibalage wrote:
Rusknight wrote:US deck already has the best in game AT weapon with it's AT helos and AT IFVs.

Longbow is the best AT helo in the game with a great advantage over other AT helos. Besides Longbow US deck has a bunch of other decent AT helos.

Bradley from recon section with TOW2, good optics and medium stealth is probably the best AT vehicle in the game and you have other options either in vehicles section.

TOW itself in game has better accuracy than Milan and Konkurs for no real reason.

So US deck is already overbuffed in terms of it's AT capabilities. If you want to get a TOW infantry either other US TOW and HELLFIRE carriers should be nerfed in some way then. Probably TOW 2 should have the same 50% accuracy with konkurs and Milan or whatever. It;s not like US deck should have the best in game AT helos, AT vehicles and AT infantry at the same time.

You forget somethign, it not only A category games... Just check what anti tank capability has US deck in C cat deck. Hm.............. Almost nothing even the iTOW capable jeep and APC based vehicle which are almost practice target for tanks and easily killed by mortars...

BTW USSR also have lost of IFV with all types of ATGM from Metys to Konkurs M and also have ATGM inf. with the same ATGM. So, can I ask why we can't have US TOW ATGM while all of their infantry - except Rifleman 90 but is also weak - does not hav any usable RPG style AP weapon? Even C cat tanks cannot be defeated by inf. in forest. Megalol...


I don't care about C category games the same as 99% of Wargame players that don't care and don't play them either, so I don't see the reason to discuss them at all. Actually I even don't think the game can be balanced properly around several time periods, so it should be balanced around the most modern one at least.

Yes, USSR has both AT Helos, AT vehicles and AT infantry, but none of them can be called best in game actually (besides shot range VDV infantry - but we discuss long range guided AT weapon here I suppose). All USSR AT missiles have 50-55% accuracy in the best case. Only mi28 has 65% but it misses AP value. I wouldn't mind to give up all USSR AT vehicles for example just to get Longbow in my deck.
Image

Rusknight
Captain
Posts: 1539
Joined: Wed 26 Mar 2014 22:12

Re: US TOW Infantry

Postby Rusknight » Thu 16 Oct 2014 16:12

keebs63 wrote:Says the guy who thinks that the US is so overbuffed in terms of ATGMs. Practically no other country had anything like TOW or Hellfire until the Kornet.


Tell me please what is so special in TOW why it should be better than Konkurs or Milan exactly?
Image

keebs63
Brigadier
Posts: 3091
Joined: Mon 3 Mar 2014 08:33
Contact:

Re: US TOW Infantry

Postby keebs63 » Thu 16 Oct 2014 16:14

Rusknight wrote:
molnibalage wrote:
Rusknight wrote:US deck already has the best in game AT weapon with it's AT helos and AT IFVs.

Longbow is the best AT helo in the game with a great advantage over other AT helos. Besides Longbow US deck has a bunch of other decent AT helos.

Bradley from recon section with TOW2, good optics and medium stealth is probably the best AT vehicle in the game and you have other options either in vehicles section.

TOW itself in game has better accuracy than Milan and Konkurs for no real reason.

So US deck is already overbuffed in terms of it's AT capabilities. If you want to get a TOW infantry either other US TOW and HELLFIRE carriers should be nerfed in some way then. Probably TOW 2 should have the same 50% accuracy with konkurs and Milan or whatever. It;s not like US deck should have the best in game AT helos, AT vehicles and AT infantry at the same time.

You forget somethign, it not only A category games... Just check what anti tank capability has US deck in C cat deck. Hm.............. Almost nothing even the iTOW capable jeep and APC based vehicle which are almost practice target for tanks and easily killed by mortars...

BTW USSR also have lost of IFV with all types of ATGM from Metys to Konkurs M and also have ATGM inf. with the same ATGM. So, can I ask why we can't have US TOW ATGM while all of their infantry - except Rifleman 90 but is also weak - does not hav any usable RPG style AP weapon? Even C cat tanks cannot be defeated by inf. in forest. Megalol...


I don't care about C category games the same as 99% of Wargame players that don't care and don't play them either, so I don't see the reason to discuss them at all. Actually I even don't think the game can be balanced properly around several time periods, so it should be balanced around the most modern one at least.

Yes, USSR has both AT Helos, AT vehicles and AT infantry, but none of them can be called best in game actually (besides shot range VDV infantry - but we discuss long range guided AT weapon here I suppose). All USSR AT missiles have 50-55% accuracy in the best case. Only mi28 has 65% but it misses AP value. I wouldn't mind to give up all USSR AT vehicles for example just to get Longbow in my deck.

Then cry for better USSR AT, dont complain about US and try to nerf it.....
Image
"arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even if you win, you're still retarted" -Someone, somewhere in Wargame Chat 2015

Rusknight
Captain
Posts: 1539
Joined: Wed 26 Mar 2014 22:12

Re: US TOW Infantry

Postby Rusknight » Thu 16 Oct 2014 16:23

keebs63 wrote:Then cry for better USSR AT, dont complain about US and try to nerf it.....


I am not going to do so for USSR. I actually thik that Eugen wanted to balance the game somehow around the fact that US has overpowered AT Helos (to much overpowered with Longbow) and overpowered AT vehicles , but misses long range AT infantry, while USSR has AT Helos, AT vehicles and AT infantry but none of them are that good to be called overpowered. I think Eugen won't give US deck TOW infantry for this very reason.
Image

keebs63
Brigadier
Posts: 3091
Joined: Mon 3 Mar 2014 08:33
Contact:

Re: US TOW Infantry

Postby keebs63 » Thu 16 Oct 2014 16:28

Rusknight wrote:
keebs63 wrote:Then cry for better USSR AT, dont complain about US and try to nerf it.....


I am not going to do so for USSR. I actually thik that Eugen wanted to balance the game somehow around the fact that US has overpowered AT Helos (to much overpowered with Longbow) and overpowered AT vehicles , but misses long range AT infantry, while USSR has AT Helos, AT vehicles and AT infantry but none of them are that good to be called overpowered. I think Eugen won't give US deck TOW infantry for this very reason.

By this mindset, a nation doesnt deserve any AA because it has a top ASF?
Image
"arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even if you win, you're still retarted" -Someone, somewhere in Wargame Chat 2015

User avatar
cramble
Master Sergeant
Posts: 179
Joined: Tue 24 Jul 2012 19:27
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: US TOW Infantry

Postby cramble » Thu 16 Oct 2014 16:40

Why dos nobody see that this isnt just about usa but also for example south korea, denmark, norway? Amd the tow 2 isnt even mentioned its more about the normal tow or i tow that has what 60% acc. I need to agree that all atgms should get 50 % acc because its just a 50/50 chance to hit something.
''Our scars have the power to remind us that the past was real. We live in a primitive time, don't we? Neither savage nor wise. Half measures are the curse of it.''

Powelly999
Private First-Class
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed 15 Oct 2014 18:20
Contact:

Re: US TOW Infantry

Postby Powelly999 » Thu 16 Oct 2014 16:53

To be honest, and this is the only input I will put into this, it will not contain any numbers or figure or any of that matter. Eugen hasn't put the TOW missile as an Infy squad for one reason: This is a game. It is not a realistic representation of real life warfare and mechanics, it tries to balance the game so that everybody plays different nations, not just stick to the current meta. The idea with any nation is that you play to it's strengths and weaknesses, America doesn't have any ATGM troops? Don't play to that concept. America's strength is in it's range of units, and top class Air Force, and competent tanks. It has brilliant mechanised power in its Bradley Series and fast responsive motorised power in its HUMVEES.
Secondly USA already has some very controversial weapons, Patriot and ATACMS being one, however, you play to these strengths. The Patriot is there to make up the rest of the US's crappy AA units, and the ATACMS, well, I'm not really sure!
The way I look at it, America is a very powerful Nation, don't go and make it any more powerful by adding even more versatility to it.

User avatar
PzAz04Maus
Lieutenant
Posts: 1368
Joined: Sat 22 Mar 2014 01:42
Contact:

Re: US TOW Infantry

Postby PzAz04Maus » Thu 16 Oct 2014 17:04

Rusknight wrote:I am not going to do so for USSR. I actually thik that Eugen wanted to balance the game somehow around the fact that US has overpowered AT Helos (to much overpowered with Longbow) and overpowered AT vehicles , but misses long range AT infantry, while USSR has AT Helos, AT vehicles and AT infantry but none of them are that good to be called overpowered. I think Eugen won't give US deck TOW infantry for this very reason.


Granted, I vaguely get that feeling too that the US is supposed to have a lack of infantry ATGM as a shortcoming, but I have some issues with saying the US has incredible AT.

1) Any VEHICLE ATGM from any country with less than 70% accuracy is not going to hit. All of them are worthless through the design of the game on this trait alone.
2) any ground vehicle ATGM that can't keep from getting hit is a stunned, terrible, and dead shot. Since 95% of all vehicle ATGMs fit this category (obnoxiously loud launch, requires extreme training), and 95% of the US ATGM options are glass cannons with less than stellar range, it's not worth grabbing vehicle ATGMs at all to try and hit something. You're better off using the tanks, infantry, and helos.
3) Most of the US's AT options are still glass cannons with poor range. Cobras are Tung food. Apaches have 8 HP and you get 6 of them at best. Humvees, were they useful, are still obnoxiously loud commercial-skin trucks that cease to exist when something looks at them Bradleys are all price inflated (carries infantry, exceptional optics in the recon tab), short on numbes, and the recon vehicles don't get a vehicle bonus (this is more regular than a recon tab bonus afaik). And almost all of them have at best parity with the majority of opponents they face. For trying to keep alive, this isn't an auspicious start.
4) most of the good American ATGM options worth taking are expensive and incredibly rare. That makes them a HVT, worth dumping a smerch or suiciding a pack of Hinds at. REDFOR excels at taking a hit en masse. The better range of Kokon et al are also to REDFOR's advantage when they ever want to make an ATGM standoff, if vehicle ATGM options were ever that good. Even then, having 10 kokons on the cheap is better than trying to field a defensive line of your only scout bradleys.

The US Has great accuracy on top of glass cannons for the most part. Redfor tanks damage better with a better standoff range. There are drawbacks and benefits to each, but at this point, there's so much extremely good splash HE and high penetrating insanity that anything that isn't full of health or armor or fast and is loud is already dead. thinskinned vehicles don't work in this game if they have to sit still for 10 seconds and actually kill something that isn't a stunned vegetable.

Return to “Wargame : Red Dragon”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 30 guests