Should the GROM 2A28 be buffed?

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Lord Jon
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Should the GROM 2A28 be buffed?

Postby Lord Jon » Mon 15 Dec 2014 21:53

The maybe worst gun in the Wargame series, with 20% acc and 1575 metres range, isn´t really capable of doing anything. If the KPVT is bad, than this thing is even worse.
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Re: Should the GROM 2A28 be buffed?

Postby keebs63 » Mon 15 Dec 2014 21:56

Lord Jon wrote:The maybe worst gun in the Wargame series, with 20% acc and 1575 metres range, isn´t really capable of doing anything. If the KPVT is bad, than this thing is even worse.

Simple answer: yes, but apparently its terribad irl
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Re: Should the GROM 2A28 be buffed?

Postby panzersaurkrautwefer » Mon 15 Dec 2014 21:56

It is quite possibly, one of the worst direct fire weapons systems to reach large scale production.

I think it's authentic at this point.
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Re: Should the GROM 2A28 be buffed?

Postby hansbroger » Mon 15 Dec 2014 22:05

It should be authentically bad and priced accordingly, unfortunately the 5 point pricing and removal of 1 point transports means we can't drop transports armed with it below 15 pts :(

I doubt much would actually happen if something like the bmp-1sp1 was dropped to 10 points but some might object on principle.

IMO nothing but good results can come from the cheapening and expanded availability of IFV's especially in this bugged atgm environment.
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Re: Should the GROM 2A28 be buffed?

Postby panzersaurkrautwefer » Mon 15 Dec 2014 22:17

The BMP-1 is one of those things poorly served by the format of the game.

1. The AT-3 was quite good by early ATGM standards. But by the beginning of Wargames it was second rate, and by 1995 it was a few steps above shooting with nerf rifles.

2. The 2A28 was actually not a bad gun at short range, against 1960's era targets. But Wargames simulates long range engagements as the standard, vs the norm, and again by 1980, it was not effective against most armored threats.

3. Soviets never built their things to survive much more than small arms. .50 API will tear through them in and out from the sides, and chew up the front pretty well. They hold up way better in Wargames that they ever did elsewhere.

In a game that better simulated the tendency to short to moderate ranges over super-long-range standoff, or in which took place during 1965-1972 or something, it'd be a rightly good unit.

In terms of prices, the 5 point increment thing is a bother. The BMP is firmly inferior for good reason to most over IFVs, but it isn't worth the 15 points you pay for it.
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Re: Should the GROM 2A28 be buffed?

Postby Hawker Siddeley » Mon 15 Dec 2014 22:24

panzersaurkrautwefer wrote:But by the beginning of Wargames it was second rate, and by 1995 it was a few steps above shooting with nerf rifles.


The issue lies not in the Malyutka being bad, the Malyutka upgrades are quite good. It is like having units all use their original, first ammo though.

Can you imagine those L7 wielding units if they used the original ammo?
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Re: Should the GROM 2A28 be buffed?

Postby icehawk308 » Mon 15 Dec 2014 22:25

Well the thing basically fires the SPG-9 recoilless rifle, in an autoloader package If I understand. Its a tough thing to balance as because the shell is finned its vulnerable to crosswinds ie inaccurate in long range. Most 76mm guns of similar size obviously use non finned spin stabilization. So one can understand why its ACC doesnt surpass 25/30%, sadly.

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Re: Should the GROM 2A28 be buffed?

Postby panzersaurkrautwefer » Mon 15 Dec 2014 22:29

The issue lies not in the Malyutka being bad, the Malyutka upgrades are quite good. It is like having units all use their original, first ammo though.


It's still not a very good system, paired with a so-so launch platform. And we go down a terrible rabbit hole with the ammunition in terms of giving all M1A1s the M829A2, or loading up anything NATO and 105 MM with the latest in that caliber.

In a different game, having the rounds and missiles tied to the CAT of the game (or deck) would be optimal. CAT-C deck BMP-1s would look like it was 1975, while CAT-B BMP-1s would carry the marginally better AT-3.

It'd also allow us to cut down on units in that at least a few units in the game have less to do with that model being different, and more to do with the need to have a different unit to justify a different missile/gun.
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Re: Should the GROM 2A28 be buffed?

Postby Fade2Gray » Mon 15 Dec 2014 22:32

The BMP-1 with just the Grom needs to be 5 pts only. The BMP-1s with Grom and Sagger need to only be 10 pts.

Also, if any of you want to complain about "but Cat C spam" then slap yourselves around with a very large trout.
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Re: Should the GROM 2A28 be buffed?

Postby panzersaurkrautwefer » Mon 15 Dec 2014 22:40

Also, if any of you want to complain about "but Cat C spam" then slap yourselves around with a very large trout.


I will not indulge your sicko ADA fetishes, freak.

It's really in a terrible spot. It's certainly more than other 5/10 point transports (even the Grom is better than the MGs on cheaper APCs), but it's really not worth 15 points.
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