I think some 1-player scenarios/challenges would be fun

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Re: I think some 1-player scenarios/challenges would be fun

Postby VioA » Wed 31 Dec 2014 00:58

I'd just like to avoid infinite fuel, like in the Fatal Error campaign, where you had to protect the convoy. God, armies of T-34, I though it was WW2.

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Re: I think some 1-player scenarios/challenges would be fun

Postby Kastev » Wed 31 Dec 2014 01:02

raventhefuhrer wrote:
Cross88 wrote:Anyone want to provide a non-cynical reply?


The reply you got was substantively correct. The problem with ALB's Campaign, and to a greater extent RD's Campaign, is you're basically holding out against endless waves of enemies on the same few maps. It's repetitive. It's a grind.

With EE there were several campaigns (five or six) and each of these had around five missions. So it was very traditional RTS Single Player, as opposed to a 'Dynamic Campaign'. The cool thing was that each of these missions had its own lead-in with narration, and background on what was happening interspersed with real world Cold War footage - basically like the lead in to each of Red Dragon's campaigns, but before every mission.

The gameplay itself was also superior because you were given clear and defined objectives. So for example one mission you might be trying to hold the line while peace talks are going on.

One mission as USSR had you trying to put down a Polish Rebellion, so you were rushing to get to encircled Polish Loyalists before they were destroyed, and when you got there you added whatever was left to your army and then had to counter attack.

Another mission I remember is you're playing as an encircled US Armored Cavalry Regiment in the opening stages of the war, and NATO is getting their butts kicked and you're trying to break out of the encirclement. Because you're encircled you have no reinforcements, and have to rely on capturing enemy FOBs and Supply Trucks to even keep going because fuel and ammunition is a concern - there are options to divert and rescue German and American units that're also cut off, but doing so risks losing units and fuel/ammunition when both are finite.

Pretty much all of the missions were difficult and challenging, but could be rewarding as you unlocked new units and added to your army. There was persistence of course, so units lost would stay lost, and units vetted up would stay vetted up. Some missions were easy to complete, but difficult to finish with your force intact enough to proceed comfortably in the campaign.

Really great stuff.


This. I consider EE to be more "dynamic" than the so called dynamic campaigns in AB and RD

Because even in EE, when the enemies always attacked you the same way as the missions were scripted, you could always choose to engage them in many different ways. Because you had to actually pay command stars to UNLOCK units, that made it so you could tackle every mission in a multitude of different way. In AB and RD, the enemy and in return, how you react to their forces, is the same in every single mission. The AI will ALWAYS spawn ALL their units at once, and fast move them magically to your hidden CV. There's only a single way to fight them, and that's to meet them with equal force, as ambushes are impossible to do as the AI will always know where all your units are

It wasn't like that in EE. You could actually keep units hidden from the AI.

I mean let's face it: AB and RD significantly improved the multiplayer experience. But the single player experience has completely deteriorated to utter crap. RD tried to improve where AB failed, but still didn't come anywhere near how magical EE's campaign was. I've probably spent 500 hours in playing EE's campaign over and over.

And I am extremely disappointed in Eugen deciding to abandon the Wargame series (and let's be real, they say "for now", but we will probably never get another Wargame game) and move to the incredibly boring base-building style of RTS.

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Re: I think some 1-player scenarios/challenges would be fun

Postby raventhefuhrer » Wed 31 Dec 2014 01:15

Kastev wrote:And I am extremely disappointed in Eugen deciding to abandon the Wargame series (and let's be real, they say "for now", but we will probably never get another Wargame game) and move to the incredibly boring base-building style of RTS.


My interpretation isn't that they're done with Wargame. I think they're out of ideas on where to go from here, and I think a large part is they also realized Red Dragon was a game where alot of mistakes were made.

How do you deal with Naval going forward? How do you improve community relations? How do we reconcile historical plausibility vs realism going forward, especially if we extend the timeline? There's a lot of things to wrestle with. My personal hope is also that they intend to rework the engine from the ground up, which is badly needed. If nothing else to streamline the process of creating new maps/changing existing maps, and editing plane/helicopter loadouts.
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Re: I think some 1-player scenarios/challenges would be fun

Postby urogard » Wed 31 Dec 2014 01:36

raventhefuhrer wrote:How do you deal with Naval going forward? How do you improve community relations? How do we reconcile historical plausibility vs realism going forward, especially if we extend the timeline?

The community offered plenty of suggestions.
First major issue EUGEN has to get over with is to have the guts to remove units from the game if its necessary, instead of piling on bad decisions that come from holding to all units at all costs.
From there on, you can solve many balance problems with ease

Also there was never no need to go beyond 1990 (but this is an "obvious in hindsight" case)

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Re: I think some 1-player scenarios/challenges would be fun

Postby Niscimble » Wed 31 Dec 2014 03:49

My favorite EE mission was the one where you had a group of depleted US forces and had to fight through to the other side without reinforcements. It was a ton of fun because you weren't able to just use recon helicopters and artillery, you had to use recon Bradleys and infantry. I can't remember what that mission was called though...
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Re: I think some 1-player scenarios/challenges would be fun

Postby Killertomato » Wed 31 Dec 2014 04:00

Niscimble wrote:My favorite EE mission was the one where you had a group of depleted US forces and had to fight through to the other side without reinforcements. It was a ton of fun because you weren't able to just use recon helicopters and artillery, you had to use recon Bradleys and infantry. I can't remember what that mission was called though...


Able Archer, I think.

I was a big fan of Bruder Gegen Bruder, myself, probably because it was the first one I actually played. It was so damn cool to drive my Leopard 1A1s around...
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Re: I think some 1-player scenarios/challenges would be fun

Postby KattiValk » Wed 31 Dec 2014 05:31

EE campaigns put ALB and RD to shame. Sure, scripted events are pretty replayability killing, but if Eugen simply made intelligent AI then this wouldn't necessarily have to be a problem anymore. My favorite might have been the mission where you break through to the Polish loyalists. That one was legitimately challenging and forced you to attempt to consolidate a supply line and maintain the forces inside the Polish lines. By the end, you usually were totally cut off and desperately taking shots at the T-55 hordes with your last T-64s. Truly memorable.

I like playing tank war with the AI. The problem is all of the maps are too large for such mock war games. If there's one thing I love about the AI in RD, it's the option to give them custom decks.

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Re: I think some 1-player scenarios/challenges would be fun

Postby fatfluffycat » Wed 31 Dec 2014 05:40

The only bad thing about EE campaigns Missions is how long they took, anywhere from one to two hours.

One to two hours of careful reconning, since once you lost a unit it was gone for good. And how they placed the enemy units... every bush and tree line had ambushes of ATGMs.....
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Re: I think some 1-player scenarios/challenges would be fun

Postby BeyondNight » Wed 31 Dec 2014 06:13

raventhefuhrer wrote:
Kastev wrote:And I am extremely disappointed in Eugen deciding to abandon the Wargame series (and let's be real, they say "for now", but we will probably never get another Wargame game) and move to the incredibly boring base-building style of RTS.


My interpretation isn't that they're done with Wargame. I think they're out of ideas on where to go from here, and I think a large part is they also realized Red Dragon was a game where alot of mistakes were made.

How do you deal with Naval going forward? How do you improve community relations? How do we reconcile historical plausibility vs realism going forward, especially if we extend the timeline? There's a lot of things to wrestle with. My personal hope is also that they intend to rework the engine from the ground up, which is badly needed. If nothing else to streamline the process of creating new maps/changing existing maps, and editing plane/helicopter loadouts.


Wouldnt that be Focus and not EUG though ?

Pretty sure Eugene didnt develop the game engine.
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Re: I think some 1-player scenarios/challenges would be fun

Postby raventhefuhrer » Wed 31 Dec 2014 06:46

Eugen developed the engine in conjunction with Ubisoft when they made RUSE together. When they parted ways, Eugen had a choice between getting the rights to the engine, or the 'RUSE' IP and they wisely took the engine.

Focus had absolutely nothing do with the engine.
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