Final changes for French deck.

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Bougnas
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Re: Final changes for French deck.

Postby Bougnas » Mon 15 Feb 2016 15:06

If anything, I would like this for the AMX 30 series (historical):

AMX 30B:
- increase AP to 12 at least (400mm HEAT, 600mm currently counts for 17 althought 19 would be more realistic)
- increase AC accuracy to 20% at least.

AMX 30B2:
- set optics to medium (thermal imaging)
- set range to 2275m, AP to 15 (OFL F1 has 420mm of penetration, the 600mm of pen of the Leo 2A4 currently counts for 19)
- set AC accuracy to 30% (Cotac FCS is also linked to the AC IIRC)
- decrease side amor by 1 point (AMX 30B2 from 1982 didn't receive any side armor upgrade, it only got a mantlet increase to 120mm, justifying the front armor buff over the base AMX 30B)

AMX 30B2 Brennus:
- set optics to medium
- set AC accuracy to 30%
- increase AP to 17 ?
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Re: Final changes for French deck.

Postby Oktoberfest » Mon 15 Feb 2016 20:04

Bougnas wrote:If anything, I would like this for the AMX 30 series (historical):

AMX 30B:
- increase AP to 12 at least (400mm HEAT, 600mm currently counts for 17 althought 19 would be more realistic)
- increase AC accuracy to 20% at least.

AMX 30B2:
- set optics to medium (thermal imaging)
- set range to 2275m, AP to 15 (OFL F1 has 420mm of penetration, the 600mm of pen of the Leo 2A4 currently counts for 19)
- set AC accuracy to 30% (Cotac FCS is also linked to the AC IIRC)
- decrease side amor by 1 point (AMX 30B2 from 1982 didn't receive any side armor upgrade, it only got a mantlet increase to 120mm, justifying the front armor buff over the base AMX 30B)

AMX 30B2 Brennus:
- set optics to medium
- set AC accuracy to 30%
- increase AP to 17 ?


Bougnas, the AMX-30B has 40%ACC and the B2 60%. Are you talking about the Autocannon ?

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Razzmann
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Re: Final changes for French deck.

Postby Razzmann » Mon 15 Feb 2016 20:07

AC = autocannon

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nWODT_Niack
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Re: Final changes for French deck.

Postby nWODT_Niack » Tue 16 Feb 2016 14:19

And then, nothing happened.

Well, not exactly nothing:
- The AMX-30 line has been indirectly buffed, which is good, but so has everyone else. I'm not complaining, i'm all for more useful mediums.
- The Légion received a price buff, which is nice, but i did not see that as urgent. I'm curious to know Eugen's reasoning behind this.
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Re: Final changes for French deck.

Postby Oktoberfest » Tue 16 Feb 2016 16:27

nWODT_Niack wrote:And then, nothing happened.

Well, not exactly nothing:
- The AMX-30 line has been indirectly buffed, which is good, but so has everyone else. I'm not complaining, i'm all for more useful mediums.
- The Légion received a price buff, which is nice, but i did not see that as urgent. I'm curious to know Eugen's reasoning behind this.


Yeah, what happened as Buff for the french forces was actually uncalled for.

The tank like got an acc buff, yeah, but so did anyone else. And when anyone gets a buff.... No one gets one.
They missed the way bigger problem of shitty ATGMs, all categories, the lackluster Autocannon ACC, the lack of AP on the 30B2...

Guess we remain stuck with crappy units till WG 4, and only the protos are viable options.

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Re: Final changes for French deck.

Postby FoxZz » Tue 16 Feb 2016 16:56

Yeah those changes are unexpected, I can't say those aren't welcome, but you said it, they're not the most relevant to me, and all the important stuff has been forgotten.
We can still salute the reducced price of the regular Legion, and the fact that dhe deck hasn't been nerfed, it's a small consolation.

Though, considering the bif fuss about this patch, I don't expect this one to be the last, and thus, we should keep the pressure !

I will repost soon my changelog, but I have to play out the deck a little first to fix my opinion.

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Re: Final changes for French deck.

Postby Mitchverr » Tue 16 Feb 2016 17:21

Oktoberfest wrote:The tank like got an acc buff, yeah, but so did anyone else. And when anyone gets a buff.... No one gets one.


And is a nerf to everything not given said buff/were in trouble before with low armour, aka lower ranged guns and generally the vehicle section, which were 2 areas suffering as is for actually having a use.
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Re: Final changes for French deck.

Postby FoxZz » Thu 18 Feb 2016 16:18

Ok so I've trough some testing and games, and I've modified my changelog, however, there is many things i want to discuss with you guys :

GENERAL:

Atgms :

Since those has not been changed, it still an issue that must be fixed. Here are only concerned the atgms that you can find in the French deck, other not listed might need tweeking, even though I consider those are the most important atm.

- HOT 1 accuracy increased to 50%
- HOT 2 accuracy increased to 65 %

- Milan 1 accuracy increased to 40%
- Milan 2 accuracy increased to 45%

Weapons :

The AA-52 buff is to improve slightly commando marines, and the LRAC change is to make it on par with all other rpgs ingame.

- AA-52 accuracy increased to 60%

- LRAC 73 range increased to 525m.

INF :

For recall, currently, the CM are terribly over-priced for what they can do, they deserve a smaller price and a little dps increase. Also, atm, infantry in VAB T20 takes a huge avail hit (same hit than the inf in WZ551 and BTR80A/BTR90) for a meh autocannon (from 20 to 12 for regular with 0% avail bonus).

- Commando Marine's price decreased to 35pts.

- Infantry availability in VAB T20/13 increased by one step.


TANK :

With the Brennus acc buff (which make the AMX-32 obsolete), reducing its price would be unbalanced, though, it still needs better optics to really worth 60 points. For the AMX-10RC, since its acc buff is part of the general one, nothing changes, and the acc buff asked is only a +5% one, so very acceptable.


- AMX-30B2 optics increased to Medium

- AMX-30B2 Brennus optics increased to Medium

- AMX-10RC SB accuracy increased to 60%
- AMX-10RC SB RoF increased to 9rpm
- AMX-10RC SB price increased to 45pts


RECON :

The RC being identical to the RC SB except amour, and ammo, both of those should share same gun stats.

- AMX-10RC accuracy increased to 60%
- AMX-10RC RoF increased to 9 rpm
- AMX-10RC price increased to 40 pts

VEH :

The Sagaie has been nerfed in the last patch since it only got a +5% acc buff, while it should have got a +10%. So the demand for an accuracy increase is not even a buff, but rather a correction. The Rof thing as explained many times is to make all those wheeled vehicles playable (outside the fact that nothing irl justify such a low rof).
With the spaag buff and since many people disagreed, I removed the VAB VDAA changes.


- ERC-90 Sagaie accuracy increased to 55%
- ERC-90 Sagaie RoF increased to 9rpm
- ERC-90 Sagaie price increased to 30pts

- VAB Mephisto price increased to 50pts (HOT-1 buff)

- AMX-10/HOT price increased to 55 (HOT-1 buff)

PLANES :

The jaguar changes would also apply for the British one. The jaguar current flight enveloppe is silly, while irl max speed being mach 1.6, it goes fatser than planes going at Mach 2+. Moreover, its turn radius is huge, while it should be on par with the other assault fighter of its time : Tornado, Mig 27, etc. The price nerf would be necessary to be balanced with the SU-24.


- Jaguar turn radius decreased to 400
- Jaguar speed decreased to 900
- Jaguar price increase to 85.



QUESTIONS :

I need your opinion on those things to decided if I should include them in my change list :

- First, I feel that the AMX30B and AMX30B2 would need a +1/2 AP buff, I need your opinion on that.
- Also, I think that their AC should get its acc increased by one step to make it actually worth the extra cost.

- The AMX-10 RC and RC SB, have the exact same COTAC FCS than the Brennus and the 30B2, then they should also have 65% acc. So an alternative proposal would be to buff them to 65% acc but but only increase their RoF by 1 to 8rom (instead of +2).
Nonetheless, one could argue that since their gun has a lower pressure (already represented with a range of 2100 instead of 2275) and their chassis is lighter, 60% acc/ 9rpm is fine.
So what of the two options do you prefer/is the most balance ?

- Lastly, is a simple price buff for the Commando Marine enough, or should they also have a slight mg buff as proposed in my list ?


Allright, I wait for your opinions on this stuff :

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Bougnas
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Re: Final changes for French deck.

Postby Bougnas » Thu 18 Feb 2016 16:43

An AP buff for both AMX 30B and B2 is required. However 14/15AP and 2275m sounds for the B2 more realistic and would make it truly viable. A price nerf may be needed however. A buff to the autocannon would be realistic and would compensate the french lack of good spaags.

60% acc and 9 rpm for AMX 10RC looks better, they are accurate enough, what they need is dpm.

An mg buff for CM would be nice.
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Re: Final changes for French deck.

Postby morpher » Thu 18 Feb 2016 17:21

I think that, more than tank buffs, the deck requires:

Cheap fire support:
- ERC-90 Sagaie price buff not acc buff.
- AMX 10P/milan price buff.

Decent anti-tank helis (extend to EC too):
- The gazelles HOT are over priced garbage.
- The tigre HAD is so bad that make the gazzelles look good. The akula got buffed into a new super weapons. I'd like a similar buff to the HAD too.

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