Final changes for French deck.

User avatar
Bougnas
Major-General
Posts: 3699
Joined: Sat 26 Apr 2014 18:24
Contact:

Re: Final changes for French deck.

Postby Bougnas » Wed 25 May 2016 15:33

Razzmann wrote:
Frencho wrote:
Razzmann wrote:The RDI was always 2 at Elite and 3 Trained.


I think he was alluding to the 4 Hardened Mirage 2000 RDI availability with the Netherlands DLC patch.

Oh right. My bad.


Wasn't it 3 at elite before the NL patch? If it was not, sorry for that.
Image

User avatar
Razzmann
General
Posts: 7497
Joined: Fri 7 Mar 2014 15:29
Location: The land of flowing beer and Sauerkraut.
Contact:

Re: Final changes for French deck.

Postby Razzmann » Wed 25 May 2016 15:37

Bougnas wrote:Wasn't it 3 at elite before the NL patch? If it was not, sorry for that.

Before NL it was 3 trained and 2 elite like the Danish F-16 and the Tornado F.2.

User avatar
Bougnas
Major-General
Posts: 3699
Joined: Sat 26 Apr 2014 18:24
Contact:

Re: Final changes for French deck.

Postby Bougnas » Wed 25 May 2016 15:40

Razzmann wrote:
Bougnas wrote:Wasn't it 3 at elite before the NL patch? If it was not, sorry for that.

Before NL it was 3 trained and 2 elite like the Danish F-16 and the Tornado F.2.


Okay then. Looks still strange tho, nothing was said about this change.
Image

User avatar
FoxZz
Chief Warrant Officer
Posts: 614
Joined: Thu 27 Mar 2014 19:16
Contact:

Re: Final changes for French deck.

Postby FoxZz » Fri 27 May 2016 17:05

I Just realised that the French deck doesn't include the Super-Frelon helicopter, which was used by the navy for ASW and ASuW roles but also mainly for logistic and suply duties. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A%C3%A9ro ... per_Frelon

Considering France lacks a high capacity logistic asset, the Super Frelon would have been great !

User avatar
Frencho
Lieutenant
Posts: 1245
Joined: Thu 13 Aug 2015 19:40
Contact:

Updated summary: Changes for the French deck.

Postby Frencho » Sun 5 Jun 2016 18:25

I updated the French deck change-list based on the following priority in terms of importance. Green is for buffs, Red is for nerfs.

PRIORITY 1

INFANTRY :

- AA-52 LMG accuracy increase to 60% (+10%).

The AA-52 LMG buff would also improve specialised decks by making 75' shock units more efficient. The prototyping nerf to Eryx units hit the French deck hard, this would alleviate the Legion unit and help the Commando Marine too. Two birds, one stone.

- Infantry availability in VAB T20/13 increased by one step :
Regular : 0/16/12/0/0
Shock 75 : 0/12/8/0/0
Shock 90 : no changes
Elite : no changes

At the moment, infantry in VAB T20/13 takes a huge availability hit (same hit than the inf in WZ551 and BTR80A/BTR90 : from 20 to 12 for regular with 0% avail bonus) for what?!
A 1 AV basic auto-cannon with rather poor performance compared to its equivalents while the deck is in a dire need of fire support. This should compensate for it.

TANK:
After playing with it more, I actually like the last patch changes for the Leclerc.
Based on what I proved on the recent Leclerc thread an authentic Leclerc main battle tank within the French deck would be as follows:

- Leclerc renamed to Leclerc Tranche 3 or T3 for short.
Front AV: 21
Side AV: 7
Back AV: 3
Top AV: 3
AP : 23 (+1)
Price: 170 pts(+5)
Availability: 2 3 (+1)

It's an excellent MBT, finally on par with it's competition due to the auto-loader and the extra + 5% stabilizers compensating for the weaker front, side and top armour. The extra +1 AP is realistic (OFL 120 F2) and needed to make it the true super heavy hunter it's meant to be.
The extra +1 availability is secondary to the AP buff in my opinion. It would help in the attrition fight against ATGM planes or cheaper MBTs one shoting the Leclerc trough flank shots.

CONSISTENCY FIX:
- AMX-10 RC Recon allowed in the armoured deck.

French Cold War armoured doctrine considers the AMX-10 RC a Tank Destroyer. It's essential to act as recon for AMX-10 RC SB and Leclerc fast pushes, as the old AMX-13/90 cannot keep up.

PRIORITY 2

TANK :
All the AMX-30s were fitted with thermal sights and night vision cameras coming in the B2 standard and later. Hence, B2 and Brennus should have medium optics. This would also make the B2 more interesting to play and the Brennus would be worth its price.

Those tanks are supposed to be glass cannons... But if they can't even see their enemy to shoot first they're just dead smouldering iron.

Considering the fact that the AMX-10RCs were also fitted with the same COTAC FCS used by the B2/Brennus;
AMX-10 RCs should have similar accuracy to the AMX-30B2+ tanks.
The RoF buff is meant to make them playable and on par with the Vickers or the AGS.
Moreover, there is no reason for the AMX-10s to have such a low RoF since they have a spacious turret with good ergonomic design and one piece ammo.

- AMX-30B2 optics increase to Medium.
- AMX-30B2 Brennus optics increase to Medium.

- AMX-10RC SB accuracy increase to 60% (+5).
- AMX-10RC SB RoF increase to 9rpm (+2).
- AMX-10RC SB price increase to 45 pts (+5).

RECON :
The AMX-10 RC being identical to the AMX-10 RC SB except amour and ammo, both of those should share same gun stats.

- AMX-10RC accuracy increase to 60% (+5).
- AMX-10RC RoF increase to 9rpm (+2).
- AMX-10RC price increase to 40 pts (+10).

VEHICLE :
The Sagaie too is a typical unit of the French deck that could use a buff to make it playable.
Increasing its RoF will allow it to deal with enemy transports or light vehicles and provide support to ground troops.
Due to its already low armour and AP values, as well as 1925m range, it wouldn't be OP at all.

- ERC-90 Sagaie accuracy unchanged at 50%.
- ERC-90 Sagaie RoF increase to 9 rpm (+2).
- ERC-90 Sagaie price unchanged at 25 pts.

SUPPORT :
The Roland changes would also affect all users of the Roland Platform, mainly FRG.
- Roland family reload time reduced to 5 seconds (-5s).

Realistic buff, as proved by this video:


PRIORITY 3

PLANES :
The Jaguar changes would also apply for the British one.
The Jaguar current flight enveloppe is silly, while IRL max speed being mach 1.6, it goes faster than planes going at Mach 2+! Moreover its turn radius is huge while it should be on par with the other assault fighter jets of its time such as Tornado, MIG-27, etc.
The price nerf would be necessary to be balanced to the SU-24.

- Jaguar A, Jaguar GR.1 & Jaguar GR.1A turn radius decrease to 400 (-100).
- Jaguar A, Jaguar GR.1 & Jaguar GR.1A speed decrease to 900 Km/H (-100).
- Jaguar A price increase to 85 pts (+5).

VEHICLE:

- VAB VDDA Increase splash damage to better counter armoured Helo rushes. Suppression increase from 80 to 100.

INFANTRY:
- Commando Marine SG-543 range increased to 595m like the G3KA4. More of a consistency change.

TRANSPORT HELICOPTER:
Consider these as nerfs.
-AS565 Panther exclusive to Commandos-Marines, RIMas, MILANs, Mistrals and Groupe de Commandement to keep it authentic.
-Puma 330H & Puma 330H Pirate for everyone else.

TANK:
- AMX-30B Auto-Cannon accuracy increase to 20% (+5%) and stabilizer to 15% (+10%).
- AMX 30B2, AMX-30 B2 Brennus, AMX-32 & AMX-40 Auto-Cannon accuracy increase to 25% (+10%) and stabilizer to 15% (+10%).
Last edited by Frencho on Tue 7 Jun 2016 19:47, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
chykka
Brigadier
Posts: 3377
Joined: Wed 28 Nov 2012 14:55
Location: Canada, Alberta
Contact:

Re: Final changes for French deck.

Postby chykka » Mon 6 Jun 2016 05:45

Good List but Splash damage for Spaag makes me a little hesitant too jump on board.
infantry in VAB T20/13 takes a huge availability hit

this is important especially for mixed nato.. Me personally would not mind more, however the part of me that cares about the game balance does not want too see Vab t20/13's covering the map.
The Reload speed on Roland getting a buff had a long time coming. However the First two missiles are really good, And I do think Rolands Reload on the move so.
Image

User avatar
morpher
Major-General
Posts: 3975
Joined: Sun 17 May 2015 21:03

Re: Updated summary: Changes for the French deck.

Postby morpher » Mon 6 Jun 2016 21:30

Frencho wrote:- Infantry availability in VAB T20/13 increased by one step :
Regular : 0/16/12/0/0
Shock 75 : 0/12/8/0/0
Shock 90 : no changes
Elite : no changes


Dream bigger! VAB T20/13 to 20/16!

User avatar
morpher
Major-General
Posts: 3975
Joined: Sun 17 May 2015 21:03

Re: Final changes for French deck.

Postby morpher » Mon 6 Jun 2016 22:04

Btw, can I have AMX-40 in moto? After all RD moto got the ZTZ-85-11A

User avatar
Frencho
Lieutenant
Posts: 1245
Joined: Thu 13 Aug 2015 19:40
Contact:

Re: Final changes for French deck.

Postby Frencho » Tue 7 Jun 2016 20:28

chykka wrote:Good List but Splash damage for Spaag makes me a little hesitant too jump on board.


Can you elaborate more on this? I don't know all the modifiers by heart.
Is the extra 20 suppression too much? Would just 10 extra suppression be fine?

VAB VDAA has 25% Acc, 80 suppression, no stabs, 913 R/m, 600 rounds, 1 AV and amphibious at 30 pts. Great 1000 Km autonomy.

Shilkas have 30% Acc and 20% stabs, 92 suppression, + 495m range vs planes, 1538 R/m, 2000 rounds, same 1 AV and non-amphibious at 35 pts. Crap 350 km autonomy.

STROP 1 has 30% Acc, 120 suppression, no stabs, +350m range vs helis, 545 R/m, 900 rounds, 2 FAV & 2 SAV and amphibious at 30 pts. Even crappier 200 Km autonomy.

Maybe just buffing the VAB VDDA suppression to 90 would do. But as the list said, it's not a priority.
Last edited by Frencho on Tue 7 Jun 2016 20:32, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Razzmann
General
Posts: 7497
Joined: Fri 7 Mar 2014 15:29
Location: The land of flowing beer and Sauerkraut.
Contact:

Re: Final changes for French deck.

Postby Razzmann » Tue 7 Jun 2016 20:32

The VDAA really needs a suppression buff in some sort or another, it really takes ages for it to stun helicopter. Even Skrezhezehzehezets are better at stunning. DPS is also pretty bad.

Return to “Wargame : Red Dragon”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 29 guests