Final changes for French deck.

codextero
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Re: Final changes for French deck.

Postby codextero » Sat 17 Jan 2015 03:59

eR_Spectre wrote:4 codextero:
Rafale - Maybe the best, however not without serious competitors
Mistral - One of the top, however not the best, not unique
VLRA Mistral - Same as above, not the best, not unique and also... SPAAGs are in general better...
VBL Mistral - Agree, very good, unique
Milan F3 - the Konkurz-M is fully comparable and there other pretty good ATGMs
Legion 90 - Good, however not unique or awesome
RIMa 85 - Same as for Legion 90
VPM 120 - Agreed, second best in the game
Commando Marine - Agreed, however not unique and far from to be without competition
Line infantry - with current meta not relevant unit
Leclerc - Only decent tank from heavy / superheavy class of France. However absolutelly inadequate availability
Tiger HAP / HAD / Gazelle Celtic - Pretty good, however hardly unique or superb
SPA - Matter of opinion, Ceasars are good, but not without very serious competitors
Infantry transports - VAB is supposed to be unique or somehow outstanding? Seriously?

So once again - what is so unique and awesome that it balances lack of solid armor force? (and I'm sorry, but 4 pieces of Leclerc will NOT save the day)


>Rafale is objectively better than every other ASF, +5% accuracy on missiles and medium stealth seals the deal. In the ASF world, that's a huge deal
>I'm not sure any other MANPAD squad is better than mistral. It certainly is the most capable, the only one that comes close are the Chinese QW-1 and the Japanese PSAM. Both are cheaper but have less range.
>VLRA mistral is wheeled F&F IRAA, that's a very important but very sparse category. Invaluable for openings where a motorized force might run into helicopters. Their speed also allows them to re-locate to deal with helicopter threats.
>Konkurs-M has less AP and a lot less accuracy, a lot worse than Milan F3
>"meh" compared to stuff like Stormers and Wachregiment, but still execellent units. beats the crap out of say, Gobybyung, LR'90, and Gornostrelki
> Has competition, but is one of 4 15 man commando teams in the game. Pretty damn good unit and definitely a strength
> Line infantry relevancy can be "debatable", doesn't mean chasseur 75 isn't one of the best out there
> Koreans only have one card of K1A1, Japanese have 2 cards of Kyu maru but even worse below it. Chinese don't get anything similar, DDR gets nothing similar, Polish and Chezh equivalents are far worse. It's only really "worse" than USA, USSR, WG, and Norks. Wg is in coalition and lol Norks.
> I would say that it's superb because the only things better are Longbows and Kamovs/Havocs. The french Heli section is third best behind US and USSR, that's pretty damn good considering the handicaps the "superpowers" have.
> The only real competitor is the Ondava, Caesar is faster, more accurate, and aims faster than all the other SPG's
> VAB not really that unique, it's better than humvees, and has among the best offroad/autonomy. VAB 20 has by far the best autocannon out of the 15 pointers. Pumas are members of the cheap 300kph club, which only really includes blackhawks, itself, and the Z-9.

Franch is infinitely better than SK/japan, and only pays 10% unit availability for it.

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hansbroger
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Re: Final changes for French deck.

Postby hansbroger » Sat 17 Jan 2015 04:15

Crappy I know but here you guys go
AMX-30B2
Spoiler : :
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AMX-30B2 Daguet
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AMX-30B2 Brennus
Spoiler : :
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raventhefuhrer
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Re: Final changes for French deck.

Postby raventhefuhrer » Sat 17 Jan 2015 04:28

@ ER_Spectre and Codextero - this entire argument is beyond absurd because you don't measure a deck's viability based on 'uniqueness', for gimmick-centered decks go play USA. Instead you measure a deck on how well it meets critical needs. France is remarkably well armed and covers or compensates for all critical areas to the point that I'd consider the second most viable BLUFOR standalone national deck.

They do this while offering a unique light + fast play style that brings something interesting to any blue team.

P.S. Man pads are overrated, the mistral truck is garbage, Legion are awesome, so are RIMa - which mean Chasseur aren't worth your time. Other than that, spot on.

Now quit having that dumb argument and get behind the token stabilizers for Unstabilized French Tanks so they can begin aiming before stopping like everyone else.

@hansbroger - Well done, +1, I like the stabs.

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codextero
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Re: Final changes for French deck.

Postby codextero » Sat 17 Jan 2015 04:40

raventhefuhrer wrote:this entire argument is beyond absurd because you don't measure a deck's viability based on 'uniqueness', for gimmick-centered decks go play USA. Instead you measure a deck on how well it meets critical needs. France is remarkably well armed and covers or compensates for all critical areas to the point that I'd consider the second most viable BLUFOR standalone national deck.

They do this while offering a unique light + fast play style that brings something interesting to any blue team.

P.S. Man pads are overrated, the mistral truck is garbage, Legion are awesome, so are RIMa - which mean Chasseur aren't worth your time. Other than that, spot on.


The original argument was that France did not have enough strengths to justify having a relatively average armored section. I listed the areas where france was a leader to point out that France DID have more than enough to justify a deck hole or 2.

Said statement reproduced below

eR_Spectre wrote:This makes me wonder... what is so unique and awesome that is balances the disgraceful lack of rough force of France?


Those AMX 30 proposals look absurd, being "balanced with leopards" means leaving absolutely everything else in the dust, i'll put together a gallery to show exactly how absurd they are.

hansbroger wrote:Crappy I know but here you guys go
AMX-30B2
Spoiler : :
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AMX-30B2 Daguet
Spoiler : :
Image

AMX-30B2 Brennus
Spoiler : :
Image


No 2275's for 40 pt tanks, period. Only the WRSA has 2275 for 45 pts, and that tanks has A TON of drawbacks
Spoiler : :
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Spoiler : :
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Spoiler : :
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Last edited by codextero on Sat 17 Jan 2015 05:02, edited 2 times in total.

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robby71
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Re: Final changes for French deck.

Postby robby71 » Sat 17 Jan 2015 04:51

It would be nice if everything could be spec...I would love this game all the more if itwent simulator...its fun as it is, albeit with too much bs and rhetoric...breeding ground for contempt.
As a sim this game would rock socks! Hope Eugene gets into it someday...not buying the new game.

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hansbroger
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Re: Final changes for French deck.

Postby hansbroger » Sat 17 Jan 2015 04:54

codextero wrote:Those AMX 30 proposals look absurd, being "balanced with leopards" means leaving absolutely everything else in the dust, i'll put together a gallery to show exactly how absurd they are.


Never fear! There is a comprehensive thread to bring up all mediums to play well with 40-75 point Leo 1s :D

viewtopic.php?f=160&t=50556

I do not yet have modified unit cards for RedFor tanks and haven't gotten around to chieftain's yet so bear with me, it's a work in progress. I'm also not really considering gen 1+ mbts in it so no M48s, centurions or T62s unfortunately, orc has a great T55 thread going though that you should check out.
Projectnordic in game! will likely see you on pact/red dragons/french!
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Re: Final changes for French deck.

Postby Marzhyn » Sat 17 Jan 2015 10:42

codextero wrote:Those AMX 30 proposals look absurd, being "balanced with leopards" means leaving absolutely everything else in the dust, i'll put together a gallery to show exactly how absurd they are.


Once again people are hiding begind the germans tanks, to refute authentic proposals (apart AMX-30B2 2275 range for the 82' one, or 65% for the Daguet one that is not explainable at all.). You don't like it? Raise the price. Price doesn't matter. AMX-30B2 Daguet should be here. AMX-30 Brennus too. Btw it's a 1995 one that should have 17 AP immediately.

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Bougnas
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Re: Final changes for French deck.

Postby Bougnas » Sat 17 Jan 2015 12:05

AFAIK AMX 30B2 used stabilisers, didn't they?
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Re: Final changes for French deck.

Postby Marzhyn » Sat 17 Jan 2015 13:07

Bougnas wrote:AFAIK AMX 30B2 used stabilisers, didn't they?


Nope only the X-30 B2 Brennus that has the same capacity than an X-32. An other innacuracy that will be explain soon.

The only X-30 before brennus that has stab gun or sight is an export version for venezuela

Was quite surprise to read madmatt understanding how stabilization works on our tanks and have let this goes so far in the wrong way.

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hansbroger
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Re: Final changes for French deck.

Postby hansbroger » Sat 17 Jan 2015 19:39

I gave 5% main gun stabs to the B2/B2 Daguet because they had excellent FCS and so that they would aim at the same rate as other tanks (their accuracy on the move is uninspiring, hardly op Leo 1 clones) I bumped up the range on the B2 because of its good fcs as well as the fact it has appalling armor and stabs and therefore is an ambush sniper that could use the range. This further helps make it different from the 1A4.

I also bumped the B2/B2 Daguet/B2 Brennus up to medium optics and 70 km/h speed in my proposals, likely going to speed buff the 30B as well. My first instinct is to buff accuracy to distinguish them from the Leo 1s but I also want to avoid inflated/unreal stats in my quest to differentiate these tanks.

Therefore I'm balancing out the Leo 1s stab and armor advantages with speed, range (where possible), optics and possibly RoF just to even the playing field, 17 ap for Brennus will be helpful as well. Thankfully the AMX-32 and AMX-40 stack up well against their opponents.
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